liu tui in gong li quan

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liu tui in gong li quan

Postby darth_freak » Wed Oct 19, 2005 2:39 am

it's not very important but i was wondering if when you kick liu twe in gong li quan, you pull back the leg before being in ma bu or if the leg is straight up and straight down. In France we do it the 2nde way but att he summer camp I saw some people doing the pull back :?

I think it's easier to pull back to get into ma bu but we may lose an application of liu twe (which would be a kick going down) :roll:
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Postby scramasax57 » Wed Oct 19, 2005 7:05 pm

the correct way is to bend it in going down.
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Postby David Grantham » Thu Oct 20, 2005 7:07 am

Actually, if it is Liu twe (pg. 108 technique 15- Shaolin Long fist Kung Fu), then it should be straight both ways. I also use the second method as I was taught along time ago :oops: :wink: . After the leg is brought down then you step into ma bu. Of course times have changed so perhaps it was modified, they were not doing it right, or better yet I was not taught the right way. :shock: :?
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Postby darth_freak » Thu Oct 20, 2005 11:21 am

I've just thought: it may be to train stability. In yi lu mei fu, the 2nd and 3rd kicks are liu tui aswell and the leg is bent down after the strike...if it's not done, it's easier to be stable than being in jin ji du li...
what do you guys think? :shock:

(I guess the right person to ask would be Master Yang...but he's still in Europe, isn't he :roll: )
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Postby David Grantham » Thu Oct 20, 2005 11:39 am

I'll see him on Wednesday in Lisbon and will confirm.
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kick

Postby dc » Thu Oct 20, 2005 11:45 am

unless it has been changed, which is a distinct possibility, you bend it on the way down.
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Postby David Grantham » Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:19 pm

Ok As far as
I know the kick itself is trained straight leg up and down. I believe that the reason for bending in some instances in various sequences is because of the technique of which it is used and/or of the following technique applied.
The kick mentioned in Gong Li I thought was straight because a.) that was the way it was taught to me and b.) it is showing the kick solely as the technique then the next technique is the step down into mabu followed by deng san bu (technique 16-long fist book/ gong li) Of course the dvd shows it straight kick followed by bending back when in slow speed, so I am most likely wrong :cry: .In Yi Lu, the technique is the kick and followed by the change in stance(technique 6-pg134 see application or solution of technique), thus the need for bending the knee. Yes I do see the arguement of technique number 5 page 132, being solely a kick technique, and again think the bending of the knee is because of the stepping to the next technique. It is simuliar to the stepping down from Gin GI Du Li to Deng Sang Bu while punching. You have to step down then explode forward to get the power out, not just drop straight into the deng sang bu (sorry bad explanation :oops: ) Remember the kick itself is straight leg both ways and is focused on the groin or the kneecap. We only practice it high for stretching and speed. The reason for the straight leg is it hard for your opponent to block.
I will definitely ask Master Yang when I see him in reference to the sequence.
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Postby scramasax57 » Thu Oct 20, 2005 3:37 pm

i am quite sure it bends, but feel free to confirm if you wish.
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liar

Postby dc » Fri Oct 21, 2005 10:54 am

hinds, you are just lying...like TOTALLY.
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Postby Walter Wong » Fri Oct 21, 2005 11:14 am

I seen it done both ways. Personally I don't think either way is "wrong". When I asked Master Yang this question a few years ago, he (at the time) said that after the Ramble kick to pull the foot back in bending the leg. Because this helps build control.

Now I suppose that once you have trained kicking this kick this way in the Gong Li Chuan form, you have the freedom to keep the leg straight up and down or only straight on the up part and bend the leg after.

I myself practice Gong Li Chuan with the Ramble kick leg straight swinging up, and then bending the leg pulling the foot back in before stepping down to ma bu.

But everyone once in awhile I just do swing the kick straight leg up and straight leg down Ramble kick in Gong Li Chuan.

If you are just starting out and/or only been doing it for a few years, spend your time training Ramble kick in Gong Li Chuan with bending the leg/pulling the foot back in after swinging straight leg up. Build this kind of control first.

But yes, for those of you that will see Master Yang in Europe this month, do ask him. And I will ask him again this question when he returns to Boston in November. He may still give me the same answer. But Master Yang's known for changing some techniques every now and then to improve them. Somethings stay the same cause "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."
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