Zen and Qi Gong (similarities, differences)

Discuss Qigong, its ideas, theories and practice. Please stay on topic.

Moderators: Dvivid, Inga, nyang

Zen and Qi Gong (similarities, differences)

Postby Sorcerer » Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:34 am

So, about 1.5 years ago I started practicing Qi Gong. I was hoping to embark on a spiritual journey (which I still am). I have not been practicing any advanced Qi Gong like Small Circluation but I do not feel I am really getting any spiritual results. My spirit is not that transformed (even though my Qi Gong is getting better). At the same time, when I did 18 Lohan Hands Nei Kung I advanced spiritually very very fast. I I also felt that Zen meditation had some very powerful effects and there is literature on the philosophy of Zen meditation. Qi Gong, however, doesn´t seem to be that spiritual. In the West its practiced mostly for health but I do not think it has that strong spiritual results? Perhaps I am practicing the wrong Qi GOng. Anyone had any experience with Qi Gong and the mind? Any thoughts on the ups and downs of practicing Qi gong versus Zen? What meditation system do you choose?
"There is more wisdom in your body than in your deepest philosophy" FW Nietzsche
Sorcerer
Forum Specialist
 
Posts: 120
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 9:36 am

Re: Zen and Qi Gong (similarities, differences)

Postby Vuk » Tue Apr 01, 2014 7:04 am

Maybe you should be more precise when you speak about 'spiritual results'. Probably most of us who study Qi gong with dedication with time get a similar perspective on this, but experience tells me that according to the type of their original neurosis, people have a great variety of ideas when talking about a 'spiritual result'.

anyway, after many years spent trying to understand and apply taoist methods to myself, I encountered this text that helped me develop a very practical perspective.

I recommend sincerely this text to all dedicated western students who try to achieve a greater understanding of themselves through a Taoist perspective.

The text is the Commentary of 'The Secret of the Golden Flower' by Carl Jung.
I will just say that in my opinion it bridges the gap between western and Chinese (Taoist) mentality.
Jung himself said that once he got the translation of the Secret of the Golden Flower he finally managed to complete his psychoanalysis theories and methods.

I believe that since Qi Gong is the ultimate practical aspect of Taoism and Chan, getting a deeper understanding of these philosophies unlocks the physical side as well. And that texts is a key. After all, it's all a matter of perspective!

But maybe it's just the way it works for me! and I'm talking too much!

Good luck!
Vuk
Forum User
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:19 pm

Re: Zen and Qi Gong (similarities, differences)

Postby joeblast » Tue Apr 01, 2014 4:37 pm

do you think 18 hands is outside the classification "qi gong"? ;) super broad term. half the time people talk of it they are referring to veritable calisthenics...without the mind and breath engaged and coordinated, that's basically what qi gong becomes. sure its good for you, but...

man have only two arms and two legs, only so many different ways he can fight.

likewise just about any meditative endeavor will require breathwork and working on the focus of awareness. where things go from there...well like one of my teachers said, learn the fundamentals then its like at a candy store. what candy do you like? :lol:

your questions were very broad...what are you looking for? there's plenty just to be found in those two fundamentals I mentioned ;) practice them copiously.
Even in mildly complex systems, any outcome is the wrong thing to target, with the process being where the focus should be.
joeblast
Forum DemiGod
 
Posts: 943
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2007 2:20 pm
Location: CT

Re: Zen and Qi Gong (similarities, differences)

Postby Dvivid » Wed Apr 02, 2014 9:17 am

Carl Jung read a lot of Chan/Zen Buddhism. In fact, he was reading it on his deathbed.

Qigong IS Zen. Your spiritual experience is entirely subjective/internal and dependent entirely upon your own mind, not the exercises you're doing at the time.

Something I wrote recently about the link between Chan/Zen and qigong.
Both Bodhidharma and the Buddha arose from the Indian warrior class, known as the Kshatriya caste. Their martial arts were called Vajramukti, a name meaning "Thunderbolt clasped hands". Based mainly on barehanded combat, Vajramukti was practiced in peacetime as physical training for health. The postures or forms were known as "pratima" and were linked together into sequences, known as "nata", which were meant to train both the mind and body. The most important of these sequences was the 18 Subduings (Astadasajacan) which reflect the Buddhist doctrine of the 18 perfections, or paramitas. In China, this sequence became known as the 18 Arhats or 18 Lohan, which means "perfected person", and refers to enlightened disciples of the Buddha. Bodhidharma also translated and taught Buddhist therapeutic kriya yoga, including Asthimajja Parisuddhi, which means "Bone marrow cleansing and purification", known as Xi Sui Jing in Chinese. In addition, he taught a system of Mahāyāna Buddhist yoga that is known today as the Muscle/Tendon Changing Classic, or Yi Jin jing.
"Avoid Prejudice, Be Objective in Your Judgement, Be Scientific, Be Logical and Make Sense, Do Not Ignore Prior Experience." - Dr. Yang

http://www.ymaa.com/publishing
Dvivid
Forum God
 
Posts: 1722
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 9:48 am
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Zen and Qi Gong (similarities, differences)

Postby sub_human » Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:35 pm

They both seek the same destination, just a different path.

To center One's self.
sub_human
Forum Contributor
 
Posts: 38
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 10:30 pm

Re: Zen and Qi Gong (similarities, differences)

Postby Sorcerer » Sat Apr 05, 2014 2:22 am

I used the term spiritual without knowing what it means, precisely because I have no real spiritual insight yet beyond living in this world and thinking about it (it has nothing to dow it neurosis). Well, actually thats wrong, Ive had spiritual insights but they have always been from practicing zazen. The Zazen Ive done has been far more powerful than the qi gong. but, i did not go back to zazen bu tto qi gong because i thought it would be a more advanced and more powerful practice.
"There is more wisdom in your body than in your deepest philosophy" FW Nietzsche
Sorcerer
Forum Specialist
 
Posts: 120
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 9:36 am

Re: Zen and Qi Gong (similarities, differences)

Postby joeblast » Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:16 am

shall I work on the mind, or shall I work on the energybody...why only work on one 8)

what is this more powerful you speak of, hahaha :mrgreen:
Even in mildly complex systems, any outcome is the wrong thing to target, with the process being where the focus should be.
joeblast
Forum DemiGod
 
Posts: 943
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2007 2:20 pm
Location: CT

Re: Zen and Qi Gong (similarities, differences)

Postby yeniseri » Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:53 pm

I am simple minded so my personal suggestion is to work on self.
1. Body exercise
2.. Speech watch what comes out of your mouth
3. Conduct behavior and coherence. i.e. does your external behavior mirror your mental attributes and leanings.
yeniseri
Forum ÜberGuru
 
Posts: 511
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2005 3:18 pm
Location: USA

Re: Zen and Qi Gong (similarities, differences)

Postby Dvivid » Thu May 01, 2014 9:36 am

Both zen and qigong are about "working on self". No need to reinvent the wheel. What yeniseri suggests is actually part of the traditional Buddhist training:

In Buddhism, there is emphasis on the development of wisdom, ethical conduct, and concentration, known as the Noble Eightfold Path. These are "right view, right intention, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, and right concentration". Each step along the path leads to the next, gradually leading to increased wisdom, or prajñā.

One learns to practice generosity, which counters greed and egoism; ethics and morality which increases your virtue and benefits others; tolerance and patience to counter anger; perseverance or enthusiastic effort to counter laziness; concentration and meditation which gradually uncovers our innate wisdom; and prajñā or transcendent wisdom, which counters ignorance, and ultimately leads to enlightenment.
"Avoid Prejudice, Be Objective in Your Judgement, Be Scientific, Be Logical and Make Sense, Do Not Ignore Prior Experience." - Dr. Yang

http://www.ymaa.com/publishing
Dvivid
Forum God
 
Posts: 1722
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 9:48 am
Location: Boston, MA


Return to Qigong / Chi Kung

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 2 guests

cron
©2013 YMAA | About YMAA | Privacy Policy |Terms of Use | Permissions | Contact Us