Move the Chi?

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Move the Chi?

Postby RingAndReed » Sat Feb 01, 2014 3:26 pm

Hello,
I'm new to this stuff, though I've found one year of Tai-Chi to be really great to overcome pain conditions. Tai-Chi is something I can understand, because we are moving joints and stretching muscles etc. It all makes sense to the average Joe.

I watch a lot of videos on You-Tube, including some by names that I read on YMAA articles (names that do not belong to YMAA) where they keep saying things like "take the water Chi from the universe and pack it into a ball in your heart"...... now this leaves me really confused!

I can take a sheet of paper in my hand, crush it into a ball and then stuff it under my armpits, but how on earth can I know if I am successfully "gathering the wood Chi from the forest and directing it to my dan tien"? How do I know if it is happening or not?

I FULLY BELIEVE IN THE INVISIBLE POWERS, but I also believe in charlatans. I know from experience that YMAA material is sound and trustworthy, so is there someone who can explain this for an average Joe to at least know what to aim for?

Thank you!
Robin Tropper
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http://TaichiAdventure.blogspot.ca
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Re: Move the Chi?

Postby joeblast » Sat Feb 01, 2014 4:35 pm

It takes quite a level of signal to noise ratio enhancement to be able to qualitatively experience things of such a subtle nature ;) The body's signals need to be regulated ad infinitum before you really start feeling your qi amass, congeal, etc. This stuff with the organs, you basically have to cultivate yourself to the point where you start being able to feel, experience, almost taste in some strange fashion, the different qualitative aspects. Cultivate the fundamentals of stillness, apana, breath mechanics and timing and that will help your tai chi but it will also begin setting the stage for more subtle things to manifest. Peelin' back layers of the onion.
Even in mildly complex systems, any outcome is the wrong thing to target, with the process being where the focus should be.
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Re: Move the Chi?

Postby yeniseri » Mon Feb 03, 2014 12:15 am

Personal experience:

Objectively, one cannot "move" qi. Perhaps it is a metaphor that has eluded me but if qi follows blood, then the condition of diet, disease and lifestyle will alter what is perceived to be called qi.
When I use the word qi, I have always tried to qualify it since people all have perception(s). When everything is operating efficiently, there is hyperemia, easily felt as warmth, which, increases skin temperature about 2-4 degrees, perhaps said perception taken to be qi. Each has to figuer out what qi is so they can better train.
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Re: Move the Chi?

Postby Dvivid » Mon Feb 03, 2014 10:40 am

Don't be confused by yeniseri.

But first, Joe explained it perfectly: practice, practice, practice and over time, your mind will be calmer, you'll become more sensitive, and your experience of subtle energy will gradually increase with the repetition.

I will answer your question, and clarify the above statement by yeniseri, with this example.

Objectively, one cannot "move" qi.


Of course you CAN move Qi. Don't be confused. Qi is energy. Yes, blood carries energy. ALL of the various types of fluid in the body also carry energy. In fact, every one of the 100 trillion cells in your body can give and receive a charge of energy, on a molecular level.

But, in addition to this permeating energy throughout the body, where the mind goes, energy flows. Want to "move qi"? Hold your hand in front of your face. Now, wiggle your fingers. The energy directed by your mind to move your meaty fingers is Qi.

Step 2: Hold your hand in front of your face. Stare at the center of your palm. Now pay attention to the feeling in the center of your palm. If you can concentrate on that feeling, energy will accumulate there, and you will feel your Qi. (If you have tension in the upper back or shoulders, the circulation in the arms and hands is diminished. So, you must relieve that tension to increase your circulation.) If you practice this with both hands, and face the palms toward one another, you can feel the field of energy emitting between your hands easily.

p.s. - the concept of Qi is not vague, a metaphor, or open to interpretation. Qi means "energy". It pertains to the energy within your body, and all the energy surrounding you from both natural and unnatural sources.
"Avoid Prejudice, Be Objective in Your Judgement, Be Scientific, Be Logical and Make Sense, Do Not Ignore Prior Experience." - Dr. Yang

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Re: Move the Chi?

Postby RingAndReed » Tue Feb 04, 2014 6:35 am

Thank you all for your replies, that does indeed clarify. Increasing sensitivity over time makes a lot of down-to-earth sense.

Considering Electric engineers from Cisco and Google and molecular biologists and more are moving to the idea that conscious perception does not happen in the brain, but indeed outside at the point of observation (the brain is the processor that takes the information and turns it to language and motor response), then phrases like "move awareness to your toe joint" does make sense.

I still have a problem with very well respected masters saying things like "gather all the water Chi from the world's oceans and lakes between your hands"...... Is that supposed to be a metaphor to stimulate imagination, or is there something more that comes with practice?

Thanks again!
Robin Tropper
M.A.Sc., B.Mus.
http://TaichiAdventure.blogspot.ca
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Re: Move the Chi?

Postby joeblast » Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:14 am

wait a few years 8) if you're not able to feel the different qualitative aspects of your body's qi, then work on fundamentals. the flavors begin to make sense after a while. its all about finding good stillness, constructively amplifying energetics (think components of breath adding up coincidentally) and a good moving qigong like tai chi helps also.
Even in mildly complex systems, any outcome is the wrong thing to target, with the process being where the focus should be.
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Re: Move the Chi?

Postby RingAndReed » Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:29 pm

Thank you all very much, I wish there were a "like" button on the replies!

I do feel something, except at this point it is very easy to dismiss as "normal".... Certainly nothing I can command.

Thanks for your experiences and encouragement!
Robin Tropper
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http://TaichiAdventure.blogspot.ca
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Re: Move the Chi?

Postby Dvivid » Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:35 am

I do feel something, except at this point it is very easy to dismiss as "normal".... Certainly nothing I can command.


I came to YMAA to study Qigong with Dr. Yang in 2000 because I felt "stuck" in that place of "sort of" feeling Qi from my home practice, and being unclear of what to do next. I learned that with correct practice, and repetition several times per week, sometimes every day, it still took me over a year before I had an "A ha!" moment. Im a slow learner.

Over time, those "A ha!" moments will keep happening, and you'll say "Oh, NOW I feel the Qi." and then it will plateau at that level for a while as you continue practicing, until again you say "Oh NOW, I really feel it." Etc. Don't stop.

I can only say: practice a lot, and get your brain out of the way. Stop thinking about WHAT it feels like. Don't search for a specific feeling. Don't attach to an amazing experience or physical phenomena that may occur and try to "repeat it" the next time.

Just breathe deeply, practice the movements, concentrate, meditate, and pay attention.
"Avoid Prejudice, Be Objective in Your Judgement, Be Scientific, Be Logical and Make Sense, Do Not Ignore Prior Experience." - Dr. Yang

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Re: Move the Chi?

Postby yeniseri » Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:40 pm

Despite my legendary ignorance, my experience on the matter is that level and depth of awareness is one facet of yangshenggong practice. I am not against people moving qi, if they can or not but we all will die and no level of qi can stop that process. So live long, prosper and drink tea in moderation. Water is great, BTW.
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Re: Move the Chi?

Postby Dvivid » Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:24 am

True...where does your mind go where you die?

The topic of death probably belongs in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7715
"Avoid Prejudice, Be Objective in Your Judgement, Be Scientific, Be Logical and Make Sense, Do Not Ignore Prior Experience." - Dr. Yang

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Re: Move the Chi?

Postby caesar » Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:32 pm

Dvivid wrote:
I do feel something, except at this point it is very easy to dismiss as "normal".... Certainly nothing I can command.


I can only say: practice a lot, and get your brain out of the way. Stop thinking about WHAT it feels like. Don't search for a specific feeling.


Good tips, thanks!

Would you even say that searching for the "heavy hands" feeling might be misleading?
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Re: Move the Chi?

Postby Dvivid » Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:14 pm

Welll...depends on your goal.

If you *think* about having heavy hands, you'll lead Qi to the hands and it will stagnate there.

Its OK to do that sometimes, just to get a feeling of Qi. But ultimately you want your Qi exchange with the natural energy around you to be open. So, you should develop a habit of "inhale into the center of abdomen, and exhale past the extremities of the hands and feet (aka the four gates)".
"Avoid Prejudice, Be Objective in Your Judgement, Be Scientific, Be Logical and Make Sense, Do Not Ignore Prior Experience." - Dr. Yang

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Re: Move the Chi?

Postby caesar » Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:42 pm

Ok, feeling heavy hands has often been the point that I let my shoulders relax. But I think I get what you mean by *thinking* about it and the center.
Thanks.
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Re: Move the Chi?

Postby sub_human » Fri Apr 04, 2014 11:16 pm

When One has their qi in sight, do not get monkey-headed (excited), let your BREATHING be your guide.

It will irritate and boggle the mind... when One cannot place their mind on their Qi, but always ahead of it. leading it, circulating it. In those years it is One's mind overriding One's breathing.

Later, it's boggling when You are standing next to other Humans, instead of sitting in the woods, apart.
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