Zhang Zuan question

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Zhang Zuan question

Postby onepath » Sat May 08, 2010 10:33 am

:?: When doing Zhang Zuan Embrace The Tree, are the sphincter muscles supposed to be maintained tense or tightened, or is it more an feeling of closing off that gate? I have heard a couple of different opinions on it and in a lot of the condensing breathing methods, you do some degree of tightening.
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Postby clairvoyager » Thu May 13, 2010 6:23 am

There are many approaches to Zhang Zhuang, at first one wouldn't believe that just "standing" can be so complex.

In my practice, I have experienced with different approaches. I'd say find one that you feel comfortable with and stick to that, don't rush for results, don't "try", just stand, and let the exercise transform you.

As for the breathing and perineum muscles, some put emphasis on engaging them, some just say "breathe naturally". If you want to engage them, be sure to do it gently.

In none of the approaches I have come across you would need to tighten. Actually, one of the purposes of standing is to get rid of unnecessary tension, so no tightening, please. Actually, if you hold that region tight for long periods you may run into trouble. Practice wisely, find a good teacher and if in doubt, play it safe.
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Postby onepath » Sat May 15, 2010 10:51 am

Thank you, I always used to 'just stand' as you say, and in the other compression breathing I did, of course I would tighten to close off the lower gate, but then a friend of mine who had studied from the teacher who originally started me on standing, said our teacher had told him to make an upward movement in order to not let energy escape but I never got more detail on it.
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Postby joeblast » Sun May 16, 2010 11:39 am

Match the form with the function - contemplate cause and effect - what does it tell you of the different effects of huiyin function in this context? :)
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Postby dmattwads » Sun Jun 06, 2010 6:14 pm

I have a ZZ question as well. When you are relatively new to ZZ, can it produce a healing crisis and make certian emotions worse for a while?
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Postby Dvivid » Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:28 am

Thats a good question, and I believe YES.

In general, I have found that when I simplify my diet, or practice very healthy behavior suddenly, or start an intense exercise such as ZZ, it gives the body time to slow down and focus on healing and often that can result in a "Detox".

Its a good thing.

Don't focus too much on the various problems that arise. Focus on relaxing and continuing to practice daily.
"Avoid Prejudice, Be Objective in Your Judgement, Be Scientific, Be Logical and Make Sense, Do Not Ignore Prior Experience." - Dr. Yang

http://www.ymaa.com/publishing
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Postby dmattwads » Fri Jun 11, 2010 6:09 pm

Another thing I've noticed is that I recently increased the amount of time I stand in ZZ from 10 to 15 min. When I first started 10 min I was more tired, but now that I have begun doing it for 15 min, I find myself very tired almost all day. Is this normal? This has been going on for over a week now.
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Re: Zhang Zuan question

Postby gnoqis » Sun Jun 13, 2010 7:42 am

onepath wrote::?: When doing Zhang Zuan Embrace The Tree, are the sphincter muscles supposed to be maintained tense or tightened, or is it more an feeling of closing off that gate?


If I undertand Master Yang correctly, he recommends pulling up the huiyin but that it is more of a mental action than a physical action.

In the book Qigong Meditation: Small Circulation, he writes:

"To preserve Qi, you hold up the perineum automatically to close the gate. Using the perineum to control Qi in the body is one of the hidden keys in Qigong practice." [p. 256]
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Postby joeblast » Sun Jun 13, 2010 11:16 am

dm, do you get any cardio exercise in?
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On tightening the perineum

Postby onepath » Sat Jun 19, 2010 10:44 pm

Since I asked the original question, I have experimented with this, during practice, I will perform an mental/energetic sucking up from the perineum to remind my energy not to escape so to speak. At the end of my practice I do some repetitions of actually tightening/raising as part of grounding with my body. Of course practice evolves...
Any comments?
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Postby joeblast » Mon Jun 21, 2010 9:57 am

joeblast wrote:Match the form with the function - contemplate cause and effect - what does it tell you of the different effects of huiyin function in this context? :)


8)

you've said what you have been doing, but what have the effects been and how has your view evolved with more experience? are you too concerned with this? how does things change if you bring that same focus to the dantien?
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Postby dmattwads » Tue Jun 22, 2010 12:43 pm

Joe, no lately I have not been doing any cardio
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Postby dmattwads » Mon Jul 19, 2010 12:48 am

I really have nothing to base this upon other than my own intuition, but here goes. So I have been attempting ZZ for over half a year now on and off. I say "off" because of what I tend to experience from doing it. It seems to me that based upon what I know of the 7 chakras that starting from the bottom ZZ is gradually working on them from the bottom up. I think this due to the fact that after doing ZZ for a while I will experience all the symptoms of a particular chakra opening up, which is quite an uncomfortable experience. Then those symptoms will disapate for a while and I will think all is well, until the next set of symptoms occur. Ex. Root chakra security issues, sacral chakra sexual issues, solar plexus anger/power issues, heart chakra love issues.
Is this a plausable theory in regards to ZZ?
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ZZ

Postby runestone0 » Mon Sep 20, 2010 2:36 pm

From what I understand one holds the perineum up gently--more of a mental thing than a physical--a pulse. I once asked Dr. Yang about the Microcosmic Orbit while standing; he said Shaolin monks did it by squatting more deeply--a horse stance of sorts--to tense the muscles and shut off channels. Then one opens and closes the huiyin.

The chakra thing? I don't know. When I began ZZ in the early nineties I had weird sensations but they quickly passed. After a couple of years of standing my yong chuan cavities started pulsing. I was a bit nervous because I didn't know what it was.

The I Chuan practitioners--from what I've read--don't do any energy visualizations while standing. Just abdominal breathe and things will fall into place--like water finding it's own level.
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Postby Meerkat » Sun Feb 27, 2011 11:48 pm

I just recently begun practising zhan zhuang and have been following the instructions given by Master Yang in various publications and DVDs. Obviously, zhan zhuang is a challenging exercise and there are so many fine details to be aware of at all times to get the most out of practise, but there has been one "detail" that I have found to make all the difference and that would be controlling the huiyin (perineum). I have to say that I find this the most difficult thing to keep control of, but when I manage it the effects are quite astounding to me.

Here is a quotation from Master Yang's article (http://ymaa.com/articles/qigong-meditation/regulating-breathing) on this website:

One of the secret keys is learning how to control the Huiyin (perineum). This place is the controlling gate of the body’s Yin and Yang. Huiyin means “meet Yin” in Chinese and is the meeting place of the four Yin vessels: Conception (Ren Mai), Thrusting (Chong Mai), Yin Heel (Yinqiao Mai), and Yin Linking Vessels (Yinwei Mai). When this gate is pushed out, the Qi in these four Yin vessels is released, and when this gate is held up, the Qi in the four Yin vessels is kept in and preserved. Because of this, this gate can control the body’s Yin-Yang status. In my personal experience, this place acts as a pump or a piston to a Qi chamber that controls the storage and release of Qi.


I have read here on this particular thread that this "pulling up" of the perineum is more of a mental thing, but when I combine the description in Master Yang's article with Zhou, Xuan-Yun's advice in his Wudang Taiji DVD that the controlling of the huiyin point is like the feeling of using muscles to stop urinating but in a very gentle way, zhan zhuang becomes a very different experience for me.

When I manage to get everything working together I feel heat and something akin to energy flow along my outstretched arms "embracing the tree" and it feels as if energy is strongly flowing from one arm to the other across the space in between my fingers. My arms feel heavy and I feel very connected to the ground. I start to get very warm and sweat. When the huiyin is controlled (to whatever extent I am managing that) it really does feel as if the energy has been stored in the upper body.

It does not take long at all for this to happen in my practise, but when it happens depends on how coordinated I can get everything. Without specifically keeping this one detail in check zhan zhuang does not have this feeling as strongly.

My question for everyone is: is this the experience other people have? Is it different for different people? Just looking for perspectives from other people engaged in their own practises.

:D

Thanks!
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Postby joeblast » Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:13 am

Quite consistent, keep up the good work! 8)
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Postby sengtsan » Mon Feb 28, 2011 12:21 pm

Hello all,

Can someone direct me to Dr Yang material about zhan zhuang?

Thanks

To runestone0: What did you practice apart from zhan zhuang to beat your cancer? Did the zhan zhuang you practiced involved some vizualisations, qi circulation exercises?

Thanks
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Postby Dvivid » Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:39 am

Meerkat - yes, that sounds right.

One point, if you focus on sinking your chest and rounding your back, you can open the Dazhui cavity and increase the flow of Qi into the arms to the degree that they will feel light, not heavy.

It is helpful to massage the shoulders, and stretch the arms and shoulders in circles first to prepare them. Wherever you have muscular tension, your circulation is reduced.

Sengtsan - I think Dr Yang discusses Zhan Zhuang in this book:
http://ymaa.com/publishing/books/qigong ... iji_qigong
"Avoid Prejudice, Be Objective in Your Judgement, Be Scientific, Be Logical and Make Sense, Do Not Ignore Prior Experience." - Dr. Yang

http://www.ymaa.com/publishing
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Postby Meerkat » Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:50 am

Thanks for the replies joeblast and Dvivid.

Dvivid: Thank you for the tips, I will certainly implement them and compare my results. I have to say I am finding the forums here to be an excellent resource for discussing the finer points of practice.

Thanks again! :D
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Postby sengtsan » Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:21 pm

Dvivid wrote:Sengtsan - I think Dr Yang discusses Zhan Zhuang in this book:
http://ymaa.com/publishing/books/qigong ... iji_qigong


Hi Dvivid,

Thank you !
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