Best methods in stopping a fight between 2 other people?

Discuss sparring, training applications in a competition environment, or even in real-life (fighting, self-defence). Please no violence!
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Postby Inga » Sat Apr 08, 2006 7:14 am

yatish, i can vouch for scramasax's effective thousand yard stare, and it tis as he says more than just the eye contact, there is communication through the set of the whole body as well. i think you are both right. my question is, at 5' 4" 8 stone whether i could ever manage such a thing. is it something you just have, or something you can develop? you said earlier that with your students often just good eye contact and the silent understanding that you are the bigger man is enough to shut things down. tis unlikely in my case that any aggressor is going to be smaller than me. i can live in hope. but i aint gonna grow anymore..there is something about having to look way up to intimitate that takes the wind out of one's sails.
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Postby Yatish Parmar » Sat Apr 08, 2006 3:02 pm

No doubt being tall and built helps to intimidate people. However there I still believe that there is something more than just physical presence. I remember reading Sanyika Shakur's autobiography as a kid and he was talking about his initiation into the Crips. On that night he went out with an older gang member to steal a car. On their way back to pick up the other people they were going on a raid with, he was staring people down in nearby cars whilst waiting at traffic lights. He said that it made him really frustrated to see people laughing at him, obviously some 12 year old kid who thinks he's too bad. His next line was something along the lines of "it wasn't until much later that I realised that a thousand yard stare didn't communicate what you would do to someone but what you have been through".

I have a friend who spent some time as a *freedom fighter*. While training I have seen him without a shirt on and know that he is cut up. Fully clothed though he's a regular short, skinny cat. I've seen him stare groups of people down on road that would usually have no qualms about doing anyone over. His eyes are horrendous to stare into.
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Postby Inga » Sat Apr 08, 2006 6:04 pm

i hear you. i think i know what you mean. i wonder if again there is something in your friend's carriage which exudes a sense of inner calm..which may make him less of a target than someone who is clearly frightened and/or nervous and an easier mark. after all, if he has survived those awful experiences, he may just give out 'yeah, bring it on' vibes. he's been in the mix and come through the other side. dunno. still, he's a bloke as well which i reckons helps. to be devils advocate, i have a mate who is 6'5", mighty big biker lad (with a very gentle past). to quell any messing about down the pub he'd just have to stand up and snarl and that'd be enough. but he would never touch anyone. abhors violence, terribly shy. if it came to a fight he'd probably definately come out the worse. but he could absolutely communicate power and aggression that was not there.
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heinz

Postby dc » Mon Apr 10, 2006 1:30 pm

heinz...you don't intimidate me. i'm the intimidator!

inga, do you train in andover?
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Postby scramasax57 » Mon Apr 10, 2006 1:39 pm

it's kind of hard to intimidate someone who's known you since you were eight.
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Postby Inga » Mon Apr 10, 2006 5:24 pm

hey dc, yup. several nites a week. with gusto, if not precision, accuracy or grasp of technique... :) but i'm getting there.
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hhmmm

Postby deinfami » Mon Apr 10, 2006 11:29 pm

i've been watching the discussion to see where people would take my suggestion. clearly, it will work... no matter what size you are... the "thousand yard stare" was a good comparison.... the "been there done that" vibe also good.... however, this tactic IS VERY OLD SCHOOL... i do not know how far back it pre-dates, but it works, if done right.

and, yes.... it can be developed but one must people careful because it can scare someone into a fight if not done properly. don't ask how i know this..... :shock:

everything that is being talked about so far is on point. i don't know that any of us can teach ANYONE how to stare into someone's SOUL. it's kinda like having the third eye opened.... you either know how to get there and do it......... or you don't. but it can be developed...... some of us may never get there..... anyhow, just thought i'd jump in put my iron back in the fire and stir the pot a little more. Namaste, De Infami
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Postby dc » Tue Apr 11, 2006 9:55 am

scramasax57 wrote:it's kind of hard to intimidate someone who's known you since you were eight.



hahahahaha, damn, i'm getting up there in worldly revolutions.
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Postby Inga » Tue Apr 11, 2006 1:13 pm

deinfami, back to your topic, i thought we had wandered off the original point about how to intervene when others were beginning to fight to more general thoughts about how to avoid fights as individuals or how others intercede before things become physical. not that this is hugely irrelevant, just a slide sideways i guess. all very interesting. except that dc feels that he's getting old - haha, worst bit is, tis pretty likely the next 10 years 'll go even faster :)
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good point

Postby deinfami » Tue Apr 11, 2006 3:07 pm

great observation... but... arguably... it's all the same to me. beginning to fight and avoiding a fight.... it works, if done properly and size doesn't matter. i've done it and seen it done by a guy 5'2" in a room full of strangers. but yeah, it was sliding sideways a bit..... anyhoos!
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good point

Postby deinfami » Tue Apr 11, 2006 3:08 pm

great observation... but... arguably... it's all the same to me. beginning to fight and avoiding a fight.... it works, if done properly and size doesn't matter. i've done it and seen it done by a guy 5'2" in a room full of strangers. but yeah, it was sliding sideways a bit..... anyhoos!
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Postby Inga » Tue Apr 11, 2006 3:20 pm

hmmm, i'm getting the impression from this conversation that the size of a fella is not necessarily the ultimate factor when it comes to make/break a fight. but as a female, i must admit i'm not looking to start any fights (well, other than in class obviously) but being able to break up fights would be useful. hopefully i am learning enough marital arts that i could successfully incapacitate an aggressor in order to give me time to get away. or just always hang around with male friends :)
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Postby GaoNovice » Thu Apr 20, 2006 12:11 pm

My two cents-

About ten years ago I stopped at a mall on my way home from work. On the way out, I encountered two girls (about age 18) into each other's hair with one hand while swinging their other fists. A young man stood nearby and watched.

As I was taking in the scene, an older gentleman happened by, and gestured that he wanted my help to break up the fight. I thought about it, and asked myself, "Why not?"

I pulled out my cell phone, held it overhead, and shouted, "Listen up! You have to the count of three to break it up and clear out, or I'm calling 911!"

They stopped swinging, but didn't let go, just watched. I said, "That's 1!" There was no movement. I yelled, "That's 2!" Still, no change. I called, "That's three! I'm calling 911!"

I keyed in the numbers, hit "Send", and watched the following message scroll across the screen: NO SERVICE AVAILABLE

I then went through a "show" - "Hello? Police? You're on your way now?" or something to that effect. Fortunately, they scattered. I was afraid that the next days headlines would have read, "Local man beaten with cell phone!"

In reality, I have been involved in many episodes of breaking up fights, and studied the issue as part of psychiatric emergency response teams. The general rule of thumb is don't engage physically without assistance. Clear breakables and sharp objects away, and get help. I've stopped ONE fight by shouting at the participatants, but that was probably just luck, and a mistake on my part.
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Postby hairy fingers » Tue Feb 06, 2007 7:27 pm

[quote="
stabbing with a pen, throwing hot water , hitting them with a heavy object, these are all great ways to get sued or possibly land in jail. causing any injury that lasts or leaves a mark, especially if you are just breaking up a fight, is going to cost you bigtime..[/quote]

Those were my ideas and looking back at my post, I am embarassed I contributed that. I don't want to scar anyone or go to jail and would only resort to such horrid ways in a life and death situation. It's just that you read about so many fights that take place where people actually die.
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Postby Inga » Tue Feb 06, 2007 10:41 pm

Hey hairy fingers, don't feel bad for contributing to the conversation. I agree one would not want to do these things in any controlable situation. If one were fighting for one's life, or if I saw someone being beaten who was unconscious (or in some way could not fight back) I would be sorely tempted if all else had failed. In fact, in the spur of the moment, I probably would. Because living with the consequence of maiming someone would be easier than living with the consequence of standing by while a person was killed. Of course, this may only cause the attacker to turn on me, and then I would be dead. But, this kind of talk is all hypothetical. I think the original point of the thread was practical ways to break up real, garden variety scraps and punch ups, esp. before they escalate, not unmitigated violence. The vast majority of fights do not end in death.
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Postby Yatish Parmar » Wed Feb 07, 2007 3:20 pm

Yeah well I had to break up a fight on friday between two students and got bitten on the thumb.

Moral of the story? Keep your thumb in.

On Tuesday I broke up a fight and started to back one of the kids into a corner. I i spent a fraction of a second on a quick glance to see if the other guy was being taken out and turned back to see a chair flying at me.

Moral of the story? Keep all assailants in view at all times. Never get over accustomed to your environment, or the behaviour of assailants.

I broke up a fight today and had my arms full of exam papers, a confiscated hoody, my mobile and my keys. I had backed the guy against a wall and he tried to run past me so I grabbed the back of his jumper/shirt collar/tie and he flew off his feet. I then dragged him off dripping exams.

Moral of the story? Big bank take little bank, anything goes. Also, I need to work a little more on my root.
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Postby Inga » Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:33 pm

Yatish, a rucksack? Multi purpose perhaps, keep yer stuff in, hands free and can help protect the back against flyin' stuff (well, maybe not against a chair..but..in theory..). How about using it offensively as well, swing it round at them?
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Postby yat_chum » Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:26 am

Bag fighting and Jumble Sale No Rules Granny Fist now we are talking really dirty fighting. :lol:

Don't ever underestimate the power of the bag.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAwoZMc7JnA
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use stillness to overcome movement
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Postby Yatish Parmar » Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:08 pm

I had just come out of an exam invigilation. Besides I'd look a bit stupid teaching spreadsheets with a rucksack. I'm always telling the kids to take their bags off!

For real though.. I can't even tell you the number of times I have caught my thumb/fingers because I have not kept the fingers tight. I guess I will always remember after getting bitten!
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Postby Kuroyama » Sun May 06, 2007 8:11 am

In any fight Ive broken up Ive just gotten between the two fighters. It might mean taking a shot, but unless they are holding knives or something lethal...thats not too bad. The down side of my strategy is that Im not real small (193cm, 115kg) so this might not work for everyone. I was told it was like putting a wall between two people.

In any case, even when I get hit, people usually back right down. An angry people will want to fight, sure, but I dont think anyone wants to hurt people they have no argument with.
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