Sparring: How hard is too hard, how hard is not hard enough?

[BeastNovot]

Greetings all:
I hoped someone could describe to me in a little more detail the sparring that goes on at YMAA. Some posts I have read suggest that it involves both strikes, takedowns, and ground fighting. Am I understanding this correctly? How is the 'end' of the match determined? Is it based on points, or the theoretical scoring of points, or is it a full knock down drag out type of deal.
I have some confusion concerning how hard to compete and how much to hold back. I generally hold back a lot when I spar in my particular art, but find many black belts don't hold back so much. I don't want to hurt any one, and have seen a large number of injuries at my dojo (dislocated jaws, black eyes, knees to the abdomen resulting in people dropping out of contention, etc). Also, I find that there are not supposed to be face contact at all, but many black belts will punch to the face regardless. How does YMAA deal with the whole sparring issue, and do you all feel it is an effective way to manage sparring?

Thanks for any insights!

[scramasax57]

as far as my experience goes, sparring matches at YMAA aren't competitions, so there are no "winners". we spar to train our skills, more than to compare ourselves to our classmates (not that there is anything wrong with that). when i spar with friends, we typically go until one person admits he has had enough.

[No.6]

My opinion?

If you don't feel a little fear of getting hurt you aren't training the reflexes that will kick in if someone is actually looking to hurt you, and that's too easy.

If you actually *do* get hurt in any fashion that impedes your training it's too hard. A little soreness isn't too hard. Broken bones, concussions, or other damage of that sort means people have their egos far out in advance of their actual control (whether physical control of their technique or mental control of their attitude).

Points or no points isn't really relevant, except if people have a tendency to want the 'win' more than they want to improve themselves and their fellow practitioners.

[BeastNovot]

I appreciate the replies.... I guess my issue lies in how a lower belt responds when an upper rank will flaunt the rules for their own advantage. I'm not exactly new to sparring (been practicing other styles for >10 years), but I've never had upper ranks flaunt their own rules. When the rules are reviewed it is always stated 'no strikes to the face'... therefore I don't strike to the face. It's a rule, and what is sparring without the rules. However, in the last 6 months, I've had a black eye and a dislocated jaw from face strikes from black belts. Last week, I had a black belt throw a hard kick at jaw level. I parried it, and asked him about the no strike to the face rule. His response was "do not disrespect a black belt" which i thought was an inappropriate response given the question. I bowed out of the match, as I was angry over his response, and he seemed upset about me questioning the rules. The issue isn't about 'getting hurt', or being afraid to take a few punches/kicks. The greater issue I see is a black belt showing control. It seems to me that by the time you reach black belt you should have that art of control down and know how to pull punches, not strike to off limit areas (below the belt, face, whatever), and should be able to handle honest questions from students.

Also, for YMAA students, could you tell what your sparring matches are like, and if there are no points, how do you assess techniques/performance...

[Mathdebator]

Is it more disrespectful to a black-belt to question his kick to your jaw, or to assume that his actions are correct and that you should proceed to kick him in the jaw?

[BeastNovot]

Yeah, I'm not sure about that either! I can't make myself throw a head kick at someone not wearing head gear, though... in the off chance that it would land, I'd hate to hurt someone else seriously for no reason...

[willseitz]

I don't really know your school or the quality (martial and moral) of the students, but many rules are to protect upper belts from lower belts who have no control. Presumably once you reach a higher level you can control your movements enough to prevent serious injury to your opponent. You can launch head kicks at people with enough control so that any contact would be no more than a light tap. Accidents do occasionally happen sometimes, although a black eye and a dislocated jaw seems very excessive. If anyone trained with did this they would feel extremely bad. I remember the last time I got a sparring injury my opponent drove me to the hospital and sat with me while I waited for stitches. I would say that if the people who injured you were not deeply bothered by what they did I would leave.

YMAA does not focus on sparring competitions. So our sparring is not 'competition' focussed. Our basic sparring exercises involve having one defend and one attack. Thus the experience of training each other as opposed to competing is imbedded in the foundation of our sparring

[TonyM.]

I've been there and my best answer is stick to the rules. If the rules are no headshots and my opponent choses not to follow the rules I get to practice evasion and deflection. I also get to practice REALLY hard shots to the pressure points around the nipples on my opponents chest.

[Inga]

Did you have your question answered BeastNovot? I am a novice student with YMAA and I highly value the sparring we do (which does include strikes, takedowns and ground fighting). I have been hit in the head and face several times in the last 9 months, but never came to any harm. I have not noticed much arrogance at the school, the higher stripes have enough control that barehanded we rarely receive injuries. No doubt they are 'rougher' when paired with a peer. Probably the higher stripes are at more of a risk of injury from my unpredictable flailings (although I'm not terribly strong so it wouldn't require a trip to the hospital). It seems unlikely that in a genuine situation someone would avoid my head, so I would prefer to cover all areas. Our sparring sessions are at the end of the week and I gain much experience by putting our weekly drills into practice. If I get hit, it is no doubt because I did not move and/or block, so, I learn. It is a pretty quick way to learn. I trained as a teen in karate in an overly protective school. Although I had the same frame then as I do now and had achieved a higher belt, I was not allowed to spar, only watch..so I am very happy with YMAA - I find that I am pushed to challenge myself, not others.

[Lohan]

I'm not a student at YMAA but it is my rule that i go as hard as my partner wants to go, and if my partner wants go to harder than i want to it's time to find a new partner. In my more angry years i would probably have kicked his ### and taught him a lesson though. 'Don't disrespect a black belt' that made me laugh pretty hard.

Personally, I like realistic contact when I spar. But again, it's a personal choice. I don't require it of my partners if they want to play it safe. At my school it's sort of an unspoken rule that if a high rank is beating up on a lower rank, they will get some karmic retribution in the form of "unwanted sifu attention" pretty soon so cover your eyes and forget what you're about to bear witness to.

[DOM]

lohan prety much said it all.there should always be restraint,respect and courtesy.It's sparring not a street fight.There is no reason to get injured just for the sake of ego.Every one in the same school should be there for two reasons to impove them selves and help there class mates improve.If you or your partner get injured you can not train,and if hard feelings are created it makes for a bad training environment.which is counter productive.You can spar with intensity make it as real as possable with out trying to hurt each other.There is always the element for injury but it should never be the intention by any student.This is some times hard for those that are not as exsperianced and loose control over there emotions.This will happen to most who train martial arts at least once.But it is the instructores responcability to keep things under control.Sparring brings to the surface are fears emotions and animal instinces.It takes many years for one to be able to control this in a confertation even a controled one.So inless both partners are very seasoned the sparring session should be monitored by an instuctor.