Urban Combat

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Urban Combat

Postby Cotton Over Steel » Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:02 pm

:!:
Last edited by Cotton Over Steel on Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Urban Combat

Postby pete5770 » Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:54 pm

Cotton Over Steel wrote:Urban Combat

When fighting multiple opponents, change you height often, and spin. Keep your momentum going, almost falling into the next move. Take out the biggest and meanest first.



"Multiple opponents"???? What martial art teaches how to deal with "multiple opponents"?
Maybe you've been watching a few too many action and martial arts movies? :roll: :roll:
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Respect and Reciprocation

Postby Cotton Over Steel » Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:21 pm

:?:
Last edited by Cotton Over Steel on Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Urban Combat

Postby wpgtaiji » Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:40 pm

2 things

1) your posting form is not suited to forums, in most cases. Cut and paste is not exciting, and your length on every post..

2) pete is proving to be ignorant in taiji and the martial arts in general. Taiji and bagua BOTH train for multiple attackers. My advice is, ignore most if not all of what pete says. He will bring you down with negativity and closed minded drivel.
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Re: Urban Combat

Postby pete5770 » Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:37 pm

wpgtaiji wrote:

2) pete is proving to be ignorant in taiji and the martial arts in general. Taiji and bagua BOTH train for multiple attackers. My advice is, ignore most if not all of what pete says. He will bring you down with negativity and closed minded drivel.


It's called a forum. People express their views. You seem to think of it as the praise Tai Chi
website. All things about Tai Chi are beautiful, pure, and without a doubt true. No claims may be questioned. Sorry about your luck but here I am, and I'm saying nothing is perfect. Be sure to let me know when you're going to test yourself with multiple attackers. I would guess that a sleazy biker bar might fill that bill very well. Or perhaps a bar just outside of a Navy / Marine base. I think you'll find that 4 or 5 guys wanting to beat the h#ll out of you is not anything you want to test yourself on or even try and train for. Failure is about the only outcome I see. Unless of course you're in a Hollywood movie. However, I did see Chuck Norris beat up a grizzly bear once and come out without so much as a scratch, so there is hope. Then again it was Chuck.
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Re: Urban Combat

Postby caesar » Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:50 pm

Hi Pete. You ask

"Multiple opponents"???? What martial art teaches how to deal with "multiple opponents"?


Well, bujinkan is a martial art and I used to train it. Teacher would teach us about defending ourselves against multiple opponents regularly. Training against multiple opponents is no hollywood fiction. It's what I see as a part of martial arts in general. This doesn't mean that running wouldn't be the first option, if one got attacked by more than one attackers.
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Re: Urban Combat

Postby pete5770 » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:01 pm

caesar wrote:Hi Pete. You ask

"Multiple opponents"???? What martial art teaches how to deal with "multiple opponents"?


Well, bujinkan is a martial art and I used to train it. Teacher would teach us about defending ourselves against multiple opponents regularly. Training against multiple opponents is no hollywood fiction. It's what I see as a part of martial arts in general. This doesn't mean that running wouldn't be the first option, if one got attacked by more than one attackers.


OK, I'll buy into a martial art or two having some training against multiple attackers. What I won't buy is the delusional thinking that it will end with you being victorious and standing atop a pile of beaten and bloody flesh(ala Hollywood). No, it will end, if you're lucky, with you being kicked and stomped half to death. Key words being "...lucky" and "...half to death". That's the GOOD news. You don't even want to contemplate the BAD. Your idea about "running" is exacty the right idea though and should be your "first(and possibly only) option". Thinking that you are that good and attempting to wade into 5 or 6 guys whose abilities and weapons are unknown to you is just plain crazyness.
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Re: Urban Combat

Postby caesar » Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:43 am

OK, I'll buy into a martial art or two having some training against multiple attackers. What I won't buy is the delusional thinking that it will end with you being victorious and standing atop a pile of beaten and bloody flesh(ala Hollywood). No, it will end, if you're lucky, with you being kicked and stomped half to death


I don't think anyone tried to imply that things would work up the best in a serious situation against multiple attackers even if you have trained for it. But hey, no one will guarantee you anything, even if you're having only one person to defend against.

Learning and practicing to defend yourself doesn't guarantee anything, it might only increase your chances in a bad situation. And that's why I think the more diverse training, the better. The one who has also trained against multiple opponents might have better chances of getting out of the situation. Running is the best thing to do but if you are surrounded, experience about tactics when facing multiple opponents helps to see what options are still available to have the possibility to flee and run.
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Re: Urban Combat

Postby wpgtaiji » Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:10 pm

lmao! pete, for a guy that claims 40 years in martial arts.. its like you haven't even went to one real martial arts class.

Taiji and bagua both train dealing with multiple attackers. many of the form movements show, albeit, exotic responses to mutliple attackers. In fact, bagua got its reputation when Dong was "found out" because of the way it handled mulitple attackers.

Now, all that said, NOTHING will guarantee success, ever! Lucky punches happen! My old karate sensei, who was recognized all over japan and the world for his ferocity in fighting, was demonstrating in a class and misjudged, and got clocked by a much less experienced student. The proverbial "sh*T happens"!

I have no idea who taught you taiji, but i would ask for your money back pete. My teacher said, one on one, you have a fair chance. 2 on one, you best hit to kill or it could be you. 3 or more, well, lets just say, if you live, you were lucky. Add in weapons, and things get more dangerous in a hurry.

That you seem to think that martial arts makes people invincible, or that there are "right answers" or what ever it is you think, is sad.

The BEST practicing martial arts can do for you in urban combat is the awareness that maybe you shouldnt have walked down that back alley with the $100 bills hanging out of your pocket.

Good luck... and dont listen to pete.. he will lead you astray and not even realize it.
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Re: Urban Combat

Postby pete5770 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:11 pm

wpgtaiji wrote:That you seem to think that martial arts makes people invincible,


ME, "think that martial arts makes people invincible"? Oh h#ll no. Not me.
It has always been my belief that most people who take up one of the martial arts
learn just enough and get just enough confidence to get their "#ss kicked". What made you think
I thought "invincible"? Really?
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Re: Urban Combat

Postby Amaranth » Sat Jun 02, 2012 2:53 am

Many traditional styles which train against attacks against multiple opponents were employed on the battle-field before guns were the common weapon, and there have been many masters who have stood against a great number and come out victorious. Some of the styles are still taught, and some of these are still taught as effectively as they were.
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Re: Urban Combat

Postby John the Monkey mind » Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:55 pm

pete5770 wrote:
OK, I'll buy into a martial art or two having some training against multiple attackers. What I won't buy is the delusional thinking that it will end with you being victorious and standing atop a pile of beaten and bloody flesh(ala Hollywood). No, it will end, if you're lucky, with you being kicked and stomped half to death



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddzeuA0KTmk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_d3KM_OM ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIjG4OJE ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2pqsRwL ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrFtr9GJ_4w (tern the sound off to avoid rude gangst rap)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiKgtZCfTUU

:D

Live to dream :wink:

Multiple opponents can be fought off and are regularly.

Some talk about it from a martial artist who has experiences of it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAxmzrWGC1A
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Postby yat_chum » Sat Jun 02, 2012 6:49 pm

The topic of multiple opponents has be discussed before.
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4373&hilit=multiple
I have presented my views on the subject there. Unfortunately some of the youtube clips on the discussion no longer work.

I will happily discuss further.
yijing zhidong

use stillness to overcome movement
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Re: Urban Combat

Postby wpgtaiji » Sat Jun 02, 2012 10:45 pm

yat, i think i agree with what you put, that it is very hard to fight multiple people. Did i get that right?

Also, when they have a weapon, your chances go down dramatically of surviving uninjured or alive. People MUST be made to understand this. Legit teachers tell people this up front (and repeat it ad nausea..)

The question came about
pete5770 wrote:
Cotton Over Steel wrote:Urban Combat

When fighting multiple opponents, change you height often, and spin. Keep your momentum going, almost falling into the next move. Take out the biggest and meanest first.



"Multiple opponents"???? What martial art teaches how to deal with "multiple opponents"?
Maybe you've been watching a few too many action and martial arts movies? :roll: :roll:

and the answer to that is Taiji and bagua BOTH teach applications to postures that deal with more than one attacker, albeit the applications tend to the tremendously exotic in nature and were never meant to be used as such. What the applications teach is HOW to possibly deal with more than one attacker, but not specifics, as those should come up as needed in the moment.
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