Justifying injury to opponents

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Justifying injury to opponents

Postby Balloo » Sun Jan 03, 2010 7:52 pm

I love Southern Praying Mantis Kung Fu, but I am having a problem with the amount of damage it can do to your opponent. Southern Mantis uses a phoenix fist (one extended knuckle) to concentrate the power of a strike. This causes severe damage to the opponent who receives such a strike. I am debating looking into other styles such as Aikido or Chin Na as a means to end a confrontation with less damage to the opponent. Any thoughts? What would you do?
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Postby John the Monkey mind » Mon Jan 04, 2010 7:54 am

Phoenix fist is used in a lot of ways, if you crack the sternum it wont kill them (probably, could always have a hart condition I guess), pain is not the worst you can do to them. Some Chin Na could really damage them long term if they resist.

Having been on the receiving end of an attack I say ethics come before and after the fight, in victory there is life, if you lose you are at their mercy and I trust my ethics more, I wont stamp on their head, in the UK that is how most fights seem to end. Hint, its not fun being on the receiving end, holding back will cost you and its easy to trip up even without their help, then they will pay you for your consideration. End the fight, go home be happy.

I am a advocate of Karma, if they attack you and get injured its as if you were a wall they hit them self against. Don't blame the wall, never fight unless you have to!

I advise sticking with Mantis as you love it but studying Chin Na as well as more options are good.
As for other styles, why not Taiji, it has a large range of options, look at the Taiji fighting set clip on this site.

Don't get me wrong I admire your compassion but remember it was Buddhists who invented most kung fu. Having the option to really mess someone up hardly means you will.

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Postby Dvivid » Mon Jan 04, 2010 9:45 am

This is a very important subject, and I've seen it discussed frequently in the past year. Since the economy has tanked, there have been more violent encounters than ever.

This recent book suddenly has gained a lot of attention because it focuses on this topic of de-escalating violence:
http://www.ymaa.com/publishing/books/ex ... k_violence

"Avoid Prejudice, Be Objective in Your Judgement, Be Scientific, Be Logical and Make Sense, Do Not Ignore Prior Experience." - Dr. Yang

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Postby Balloo » Mon Jan 04, 2010 3:45 pm

Thank you both for your thoughts. I appreciate your time and ideas. I am going to Minnesota to try another southern mantis class. And I will definitely pick up that book. Thank you again guys. I will probably stick with mantis. In all honesty, that is where my heart is at. I know I will not be the best fighter, I know I may get beaten, but you know what...mantis is where my heart is, and that's really whats important to me. That said, I know mantis is far from perfect, so I will continue to look at other styles and integrate what seems effective to me.
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Postby Josh Young » Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:22 am

Aikido is largely derived of Aikijutsu, both can be done in a very deadly manner. Only the later school of Morihei received his developed concepts of avoiding harm, early schools of his used the same techniques in a deadlier fashion.

Chi-na is also loaded with techniques that one cannot safely train in applying because they cause serious injury or death.

Chi-na and Aikido may be bad choices for arts that are less injurious, they may not contain what mantis does, but they can destroy a person nonetheless.

I know only stories about mantis, and the forms I have seen. It looks to be a very nice martial art. I'd love to hear more about it. I think you made a good choice.
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Postby yat_chum » Fri Jan 22, 2010 5:07 pm

Last edited by yat_chum on Mon Mar 29, 2010 11:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby joeblast » Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:38 am

"A good fight should be like a small play...but played seriously. When the opponent expands, I contract. When he contracts, I expand. And when there is an opportunity... I do not hit...it hits all by itself"

I think unless you unambiguously have more skill than your opponent, then the hit is simply what becomes available, if it is indeed serious.
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Postby charp choi » Sat Aug 14, 2010 7:14 pm

Southern Mantis is a very direct system.
There are numerous different systems (Chu Gar, Chow Gar, Kwongsai Jook Lum, Dit Ngau (Iron ox) and Chuka Shaolin).
The phoenix eye is prominent in all of them although they do have their differences. It also has chin-na (kumla in cantonese) techniques in the system as well as throws etc.
nei but loy, ngor but fat
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Re: Justifying injury to opponents

Postby pete5770 » Sun Feb 12, 2012 4:32 pm

Lots of talk here about seriously hurting people in fights. This is not acceptable in sparring.
It's practice for real fights, whether in the ring or outside. If you want to fight in the ring then you should prepare yourself to hurt people. It's what's required. If you can't deal with hurting people, stay out of the ring. Simple as that. If you're out looking for fights in bars, etc. I'm going to assume you don't care whether you hurt or kill someone. If you don't want to fight, period, then I suggest you adopt The Richard Pryor Self Defense Program - learn to "RUNNNNNN".
If you need to defend yourself in a hostile situation, not of your making, just "get over" the idea that you might hurt someone. No one will really care if you beat a guy half to death after he attacks you, but you'll care if he beats YOU half to death because you couldn't picture yourself hurting him. :wink:
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