5 doors and foot work - sparring observations

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5 doors and foot work - sparring observations

Postby leighspost » Sun Nov 25, 2007 6:21 pm

I was free sparring with a much larger opponent when it was obvious that toe to toe sparring, trying to hit, grab, and lock are really hard.

So I thought back to Dr. yangs Taji book and his five doors and footwork. I started applying this and as he attacked I was working around his forward line of attack.

Its easy to yield and redirect someone who is charging at you but a big guy who is moving slowly forward but strongly is very difficult to yield and redirect. So I changed my tactic to moving around him trying to open the five doors and using stepping.

For example as he attacks, I step forward and to the left bringing me to his right side outer. This diffused the on coming attack and I felt in a much better place to counter.

It made me realise that footwork is so essential but not often discussed. there is very little written about it other than how to close the gap.

When I was working the footwork and focusing on entering the doors it really felt like a much better technique.

I am now using more Bagua style circle walking and avoid straight line attacks as they are the most difficult to me.

If anyone out there has some insight into this partical practice it would be great if they could share their thoughts.
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Postby DOM » Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:31 pm

Evasion technique's is something that is taught in Shorinji-ryu early on . So it was never some thing foreign to me . But it seems these concepts are kept for advanced training in Kung fu and Tai Chi and other systems .All the basic foundation training for this is on Master Yang's Fundamental Kung Fu DVD .
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Postby Yatish Parmar » Tue Nov 27, 2007 3:07 am

The Bagua book by Park Bok Nam has a bunch of different footwork drills in it.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fundamentals-Pa ... 719&sr=8-1

Also study your forms. all this stuff is in there.
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angling foot work

Postby jfraser » Thu Dec 13, 2007 8:23 am

There is also a lot of great footwork patterns taught in Serak Serak Silat ala the Detoures (sp?) brothers. You are right, it is rarely talked about or taught in TJQ circles. I learn four patterns which I find very uselful and valuable.

I have almost never seen 22 degree to the front or rear stepping in almost any TJQ form, maybe with one exception.

:) 8)
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a key

Postby jfraser » Thu Dec 13, 2007 8:27 am

The key with these angular steps is to get off his center line, that is not be there as the opponent attacks, counter attack and then continue to step in ways that occupy his space.

:) 8)
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Postby kung fu fighter » Mon Apr 07, 2008 12:21 am

Hi,

I have been saying this for years. The real secret to any kind of fighting especially southern kung fu is the angular footwork to adjust distance safely.


Someone mentioned a while back that there was some kind of 8 direction secret footwork in white crane map of manual that was lost.

I am a wing chun fighter and my footwork strategy is to constantly cut angles in all directions based on how the opponent moves in order to keep my advantage of remaining on his flank as i close the gap and keep pressure the opponent with small non committed steps.

How do you guys apply footwork as a strategy in white crane and tai chi?

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Postby lilman » Mon Apr 07, 2008 9:26 am

Well I study Taijiquan. As far as foot work goes, if you ever read the classics, theres really only one good strategy for your footwork; it depends on what your opponent does... Stick adhere follow, and set up the best position for your attack, depending on your feeling at the moment, no premeditated attacks, and you will win. If you setup a strategy, your yi will be on the strategy, not the opponent, so the opponent will be able to sense your Qi and force you to change your strategy.
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reply to Navin

Postby jfraser » Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:31 am

Navin wrote:

I have been saying this for years. The real secret to any kind of fighting especially southern kung fu is the angular footwork to adjust distance safely.

Someone mentioned a while back that there was some kind of 8 direction secret footwork in white crane map of manual that was lost.

I am a wing chun fighter and my footwork strategy is to constantly cut angles in all directions based on how the opponent moves in order to keep my advantage of remaining on his flank as i close the gap and keep pressure the opponent with small non committed steps.
The bold emhasis is mine, not Navin's.

Navin, very well said, and I could not agree with you more :!: :!: :!: :!:
These steps are, as you said small, and not commited, and they do keep you outside his flank, and closing the gap, in a way that makes your opponent have to adjust to continue to attack you, and when he does, "its too late!"

And some TJQ styles still move in the 8 directions of the compass, with considedrable pivoting in most transitional movements, and not in the more or less back and forward step patterns seen often these days. The stepping in most TJQ I have trained in or watched has this forward/ back or staying in one place, with some mostly 90 degree angling, This aspect of Contempory TJQ, has not made sense to me for decades. So, I think prehaps some teacher years back removed this stepping from most of the TJQ form sets.

Thank you very much for you very clear and useful perspective.
This perspective also applies to many Silat styles, also.
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Re: reply to Navin

Postby kung fu fighter » Thu Apr 24, 2008 9:26 pm

jfraser wrote:Navin wrote:

I have been saying this for years. The real secret to any kind of fighting especially southern kung fu is the angular footwork to adjust distance safely.

Someone mentioned a while back that there was some kind of 8 direction secret footwork in white crane map of manual that was lost.

I am a wing chun fighter and my footwork strategy is to constantly cut angles in all directions based on how the opponent moves in order to keep my advantage of remaining on his flank as i close the gap and keep pressure the opponent with small non committed steps.
The bold emhasis is mine, not Navin's.

Navin, very well said, and I could not agree with you more :!: :!: :!: :!:
These steps are, as you said small, and not commited, and they do keep you outside his flank, and closing the gap, in a way that makes your opponent have to adjust to continue to attack you, and when he does, "its too late!"

And some TJQ styles still move in the 8 directions of the compass, with considedrable pivoting in most transitional movements, and not in the more or less back and forward step patterns seen often these days. The stepping in most TJQ I have trained in or watched has this forward/ back or staying in one place, with some mostly 90 degree angling, This aspect of Contempory TJQ, has not made sense to me for decades. So, I think prehaps some teacher years back removed this stepping from most of the TJQ form sets.

Thank you very much for you very clear and useful perspective.
This perspective also applies to many Silat styles, also.


You're welcome jfraser!

What styles of silat and tai chi do you practice?
To everyone else,

I would hear how white crane or any other short range style approach footwork as a strategy in fighting.

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Navin

Postby jfraser » Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:54 pm

I practice Yang Tai Chi Xiaojia, a rare from and traditional form from Northeast China. I also practiced Serak Serak Silat, and Sayoc Kali (very blade orientated). Stepping here becomes critical!
In Lan Shou Quan, stepping was also very important., which I practiced for 10 years. It is a unique and not common long fist.

Kind regards,
James :) :)
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Re: Navin

Postby kung fu fighter » Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:27 am

jfraser wrote:I practice Yang Tai Chi Xiaojia, a rare from and traditional form from Northeast China. I also practiced Serak Serak Silat, and Sayoc Kali (very blade orientated). Stepping here becomes critical!
In Lan Shou Quan, stepping was also very important., which I practiced for 10 years. It is a unique and not common long fist.

Kind regards,
James :) :)


Hi James!

I seen some of the serak silat, it's the closest of all the silat systems to wing chun that i have seen. I have some footage of steven plinck as well as Bob Orlando, very interesting stuff. very good concepts! I also liked Rudy ter tildan's stuff?

I have a friend that teaches sayoc kali, very dangerous stuff, my friend discribes it as wing chun with blades!

Is the serak footwork basically the same as sayoc kali's (male and female triangles).

Is it the old yang or guang ping tai chi that you do?




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