Belt Training

[Dim Mak]

Hi,

I was just curious if anyone uses the belt drill (which probably has another name) where you take a standard rank belt and tie one end to your belt, and one end to your opponents so that you can not escape each others punch or kick range. My teacher used to make me do this drill against the biggest people in class because I had a tendancy to spend my whole time evading when I fought them. Has anyone else used this drill or a similar one to break the habbit of "running away"? I am currently teaching someone who is very fast and spends most of her time retreating or evading; I wanted to break this habbit, but I was worried about the belt drill because it is pretty rough for someone who is not used to taking heavy hits, but if I don't hit hard she will attack through my attack not recognizing the importance of blocking when you stand your ground. It was done to me in a very rough way, but since I am training a petite female, I feel like I might need to adjust my tactics. Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks

[Inga]

Hi DimMak,

To my knowledge we do not use this drill at YMAA in Andover. We never have in any class I have attended, nor have I heard veteran students speak of this drill. Often when drilling repetitive strike/block moves (where you reset after each attack) I evade. I have been encouraged to put myself out of reach, the idea being it's as effective as a block. This may be because I am 5' 4" female, and while not terribly strong (certainly compared to male partners) I do have speed on my side. I can dodge and zip back in, as it were. Interestingly I find that with open sparring I do not "run" but seem to hang in there until beaten. I have no idea why.

Sometimes the senior students will stand on my toes when sparring, so I cannot get away and I am forced to do something, but my understanding of the purpose of that is to demonstrate that I was in too close and not aware I had a poor position. Sorry this is not very good advice, just my experience from your student's point of view. Hopefully someone will get in here with some ideas for you.

[Dim Mak]

Inga,

Thanks very much for the input. I know that evasion will be one of her best defenses like it is for me (I am 6'1 and just over 150 lbs...I try to stand clear of big hits as well ) But I just didn't want her to get over confident with the same tactics. Sometimes she might be in a situation like a crowd or small room where there is no room to run, and I want to be sure that she will stand her ground, or that she at least knows how. She has good attacks, but if you rush her with enough intensity she just evades and forgets to attack. Thanks again Inga, and any further input would be great.

[yat_chum]

Hi Dim Mak, what style do you do? I think that the belt drill is an excellent training method for most styles. You can still be evasive in belt range. I disagree about the level of contact, you don't need to hit hard to let someone know you could have got the strike in. Do you train sticking or pushing hands? They will help.

"When a fight comes, always endeavour to chase the enemy around to your left side. Chase him toward awkward places and try to keep him with his back to awkward places. When an enemy gets into an inconvenient position, do not let him look around but conscientiously chase him around and pin him down. In houses, chase the enemy into the thresholds, lintels, doors, verandas, pillars and so on, again not letting him see his situation.
Always chase the enemy into bad footholds, obstacles at the side and so on, using the virtues of the place to establish predominant positions from which to fight. You must research and train diligently in this."
The Book of Five Rings

[Inga]

Thank you for your positive feedback. I guess the only other points I can think to add just now, based on your response, is firstly, that being confident at a few good moves is okay I think. I agonise often that I can't manage somethings due to my size/strength, but my sifu advises me to stick with what I am good at and make it GOOD. Make it confident, unthinking and solid. Chances are if I am ever genuinely attacked, it's not going to be some amazing minutes long fight sequence. It's going to be fast, furious and probably over with before I even realise what's happened. I need to hurt, ideally immobilise, and get away. Run like the dickens. I am not going to defeat a 6 foot 200lb bloke at this stage of my training. I may never have the skill to do so. My second thought is, if your training partner has just started, she is bound to simply evade and forget to attack. That comes with practice, it needs to get into your muscle memory. You need to a) know what to do and b) THEN apply it. It's taken me two years to learn my basics, to get a good foundation, some understanding and muscle memory. And now I am starting to put things together, I am getting more comfortable with engaging in drills. And yet I can still see I've only just begun. Be patient with her. Time will be on her side. And remember, if she is in a crowded room, she is unlikely to be attacked, and if she is, someone is going to assist.

[Dim Mak]

Hi Dim Mak, what style do you do? I think that the belt drill is an excellent training method for most styles. You can still be evasive in belt range. I disagree about the level of contact, you don't need to hit hard to let someone know you could have got the strike in. Do you train sticking or pushing hands? They will help.

I My first style was Isshin-Ryu/ Isshin kenpo. Then I trained for a bit in kickboxing and brazilian jujitsu. I did standing meditation and qigong for a while but I've just recently gotten interested in taiji and bagua. I also go to school for acupuncture which I incorporate, but I don't really teach. I have always liked the belt drill as well, and I agree you can still be evasive, but you are forced to do it in a more confined space instead of running all over the place. About the contact; I'm not sure if it's my training methods or what, but usually about this middle range where they first start sparring with a little hard contact, if I check my shots too much, my students just punch through the checked blows. I think they are too focused on their attack plan and the excitment to realize that their opponents punches still hurt. Do you think push hands will help with this? How so?

Thank you for your positive feedback. I guess the only other points I can think to add just now, based on your response, is firstly, that being confident at a few good moves is okay I think.

It certainly is. In fact, I encourage my students to get really good at only one or two kicks (out of about 20) at first for this very reason. I teach them all and tell the students to pick a couple of the ones they are most comfortable with for sparring at first.

I agonise often that I can't manage somethings due to my size/strength, but my sifu advises me to stick with what I am good at and make it GOOD.

Don't worry about this. I used to be the same way, and most of the men in my class were much bigger than me (boy aren't those shoulder throw or submission days fun when you are the smallest person by at least 40-50 lbs? ) To me this is way better in the long run. After being the underdog so many times it gives you a sort of ferocious spirit. Now, I am still skinny, and I train a couple of pretty big guys that call me teacher and flinch when I raise my leg to kick. It may sound dumb, but that makes me proud. Just as your teacher says, make a handful of techniques really good, master every situation with those techniques, but always be ready to adapt if what you are doing isn't working (so learn a versitile but minimal range and make sure you include techniques or applications that have stopping power).

My second thought is, if your training partner has just started, she is bound to simply evade and forget to attack. That comes with practice, it needs to get into your muscle memory.

I have found that it is better to build good habits at first, instead of trying to correct bad habits later. I realize that there is a lot to think about when sparring, but now that we are making contact, I want her to have a solid foundation. After reading your perspective, I think maybe I should modify the drill. I might just start her out by drawing a box on the ground or something, unless someone has a specific drill they used or something. I don't want her to get discouraged, but I don't want her to build false confidence either.

It's taken me two years to learn my basics, to get a good foundation, some understanding and muscle memory. And now I am starting to put things together, I am getting more comfortable with engaging in drills. And yet I can still see I've only just begun. Be patient with her.

I have been training for almost 9 years, so I tend to forget what it was like starting out. I just don't want her to feel like she is missing out because the guys are moving up (she's better than some of these guys).

Thanks to both of you for your responses

[Inga]

Dim Mak,

Thank you for your response. It's interesting to read what other training styles and schools are like. You quote my point about newbies evading attack by pointing out that you train good habits from the start. Absolutely! I was not inferring otherwise. I was saying from my perspective, it did not matter how many times I was shown the correct position of an accurate block or a well aimed punch, it was ugly in form until I had done it over and over and over and over (etc). You've got so much to work on, the form, the body position and then applying those new concepts in a fluid situation which is not familiar. It's a big ask, but one has to try. Especially if you are asking her to repsond to an open sparring situation, rather than slower, repetitive bloke/strike drills, where you reset after each attack. We do a lot of repetitive work, and I train the same at home. Aye, tis awful boring sometimes, but man it pays off. Really does. I remember some things feeling very awkward, that seem normal now, my body is getting more instinctual. It sounds like your student is swifter of mind than me (I have noticed in our class too, some pick things up faster than others, for various reasons). All the best will in the world (and if she is like me, she's got it in spades) can't make you competent overnight. Erm, but you know that :) Sorry, just trying to clarify my point, especially as you say you forget what it feels like to be new.

We do a drill on occasion where the individual stands inside a circle of four people holding the large body pads (rectangular ones). You can adjust this drill to suit your student. The padholders count to 3 (or 5 or whatever) and then slowly close in on the student and nudge him. The student meanwhile is supposed to make contact with the pads using any kind of strike. When the pad is struck, the padholder must retreat and resume count back to 1. The idea being, you are constantly dealing with mulitple attacks, the goal being the padholders never nudge you. Perhaps said more clearly, the individual has to keep the attack constantly moving to avoid being squished by pads. You could make is simple in that only a touch counts. Or harder, in that the strike must be solid and well placed otherwise does not qualify. You can vary the count, etc. Sometimes we have three padholders, which makes it a little easier, but four is the usual. Of course the "nudges" often become "slams", again, something you can modify. Affectionately called "the cube of doom" haha. It can get very aggressive (I've lost shoes, others have lost shoes, spectacles, etc.) and frustrating, but it's pretty hard to get hurt. I've never seen anyone get injured.

[SunTzu]

Hi guys,

I read some good responses and I guess the belt exercise can learn her to only evade attack moves (and move to the side) and to never step backwards.
The only thing is she will only be able to respond in ways that give her the room that she has, and not, let's say 2 inches more if needed because the belt is only as long as it is.

I will explain another exercise which perhaps can help her progress in dealing with this matter too. Also I have to say, that probably it would be better to wait with sparring until this 'problem' is resolved.
The exercise I will describe below should be done in combination with sticking hands/pushing hands training, to help her execute techniques that suit her weight/posture etc. Not blocks which stop the power but rather blocks which let the power continue it's journey by moving away just a little bit, just enough to NOT get hit (stationary evading). And evading moves which for example move under a person's arm pit to get behind that person (like in Bagua).

the exercise:

Make her stand with her back against a wall, and forbid her to move away.
The only evading which may be done is stationary evading (described above). She has to proceed 'back facing the wall' during the entire session, also she is forbidden to attack or counterattack during the exercise.
Then you (or anyone else) take the role of attacker, and attack her in a pace she can manage. She WILL try to get away from the wall since this is kind of like a natural defense mechanism, so do not get p*ssed off because of this, but remind her to back the wall.
After some time she will learn (muscle memory) to not run around but rather respond effectively according her posture since she cannot step back anymore because of the wall.


cheers !

[Dim Mak]

Dim Mak,

Thank you for your response. It's interesting to read what other training styles and schools are like. You quote my point about newbies evading attack by pointing out that you train good habits from the start. Absolutely! I was not inferring otherwise. I was saying from my perspective, it did not matter how many times I was shown the correct position of an accurate block or a well aimed punch, it was ugly in form until I had done it over and over and over and over (etc). You've got so much to work on, the form, the body position and then applying those new concepts in a fluid situation which is not familiar. It's a big ask, but one has to try. Especially if you are asking her to repsond to an open sparring situation, rather than slower, repetitive bloke/strike drills, where you reset after each attack. We do a lot of repetitive work, and I train the same at home. Aye, tis awful boring sometimes, but man it pays off. Really does. I remember some things feeling very awkward, that seem normal now, my body is getting more instinctual. It sounds like your student is swifter of mind than me (I have noticed in our class too, some pick things up faster than others, for various reasons). All the best will in the world (and if she is like me, she's got it in spades) can't make you competent overnight. Erm, but you know that Sorry, just trying to clarify my point, especially as you say you forget what it feels like to be new.

We do a drill on occasion where the individual stands inside a circle of four people holding the large body pads (rectangular ones). You can adjust this drill to suit your student. The padholders count to 3 (or 5 or whatever) and then slowly close in on the student and nudge him. The student meanwhile is supposed to make contact with the pads using any kind of strike. When the pad is struck, the padholder must retreat and resume count back to 1. The idea being, you are constantly dealing with mulitple attacks, the goal being the padholders never nudge you. Perhaps said more clearly, the individual has to keep the attack constantly moving to avoid being squished by pads. You could make is simple in that only a touch counts. Or harder, in that the strike must be solid and well placed otherwise does not qualify. You can vary the count, etc. Sometimes we have three padholders, which makes it a little easier, but four is the usual. Of course the "nudges" often become "slams", again, something you can modify. Affectionately called "the cube of doom" haha. It can get very aggressive (I've lost shoes, others have lost shoes, spectacles, etc.) and frustrating, but it's pretty hard to get hurt. I've never seen anyone get injured.

Thanks for your input Inga. I really like the "cube of doom" idea. I will put it to use this weekend and let you know how it goes.

[Dim Mak]

Make her stand with her back against a wall, and forbid her to move away.
The only evading which may be done is stationary evading (described above). She has to proceed 'back facing the wall' during the entire session, also she is forbidden to attack or counterattack during the exercise.
Then you (or anyone else) take the role of attacker, and attack her in a pace she can manage. She WILL try to get away from the wall since this is kind of like a natural defense mechanism, so do not get p*ssed off because of this, but remind her to back the wall

I could never get pissed at this bunch.
I like this drill idea too. I will also give this one a shot this weekend and let you know how it plays out.
As for the evasion, she doesn't really need any drilling on just evasion. She was a dancer for years, and believe it or not, that can translate to some really good footwork, and strong stances for such a little person. I kinda wish all my guys had been dancers

How would you suggest initiating her to rough contact? I don't really have any experience with female students (I had some female instructors, but some of them could beat me down, so I never felt bad about kicking them). With everyone I do "slow sparring". All my students learn this first so there is always an element of control. We start at 25% speed (meaning if you can't puch 4x faster than your last punch you should slow down). We just look for openings and practice blocking and attacking without getting off balance. As we move to 50-then 75% speed (25-50% power) I gradually slip in harder and harder (but controled) shots. Usually around medium speed medium contact, the guys start wanting to hit harder and I let them set the pace (within reason). Soon they will be hitting at a level that is too much for her. Even though I stress control, I don't want her to feel she is falling behind if I were to make everyone take it extra easy on her from now on. Any help would be appreciated.

[Inga]

I know it's hard, but try to not fixate on her being female, and that somehow it makes her terrifically different in how you would train her. You may have to adapt some things, for example, some chin na locks I cannot manage with only one hand, as would normally be done, my hands are too small and I do not have the strength. But I have been shown how to use my other hand and prop with my body structure to make up for it. I weigh 120lbs, so when holding pads for 6' 200lb fellas they can't go full power or I would go through the wall, no matter how good my root. But my root has improved, and they can hit hard enough they get some benefit. They do not have to tap it. Otherwise I am not treated differently to any other of the students. Our instructor looks at individuals, how long they have trained, their abilities and any injuries they may be nursing. People have strengths and weaknesses, look at her as you would any new student, treat her like any other new student. Our contact sparring in on a seperate night, you must have a desire and more importantly the instructor has to invite you to come. Everyone there is ready for "rough" impact, although some are of higher ability than others. Learning control is useful for the advanced students, while 'green' students work on gaining confidence. We often start our sessions with body conditioning. I bruise far less since starting this routine, which I continue at home using mung bean pads. This may help her. She is bound to feel lost until it becomes more familiar and comfortable. I don't see how you can avoid that or why you should. Anything new takes awhile to improve, it makes you feel all the better about being competent when you get there, remembering how awful you were :) Don't mix up hurting her feelings and hurting her body. She should trust you to take her along as you see her ready to progress. Going easy at the start does not have to mean "from now on". She signed up for martial arts. You don't have to use your full power that you may on a male, more advanced student, but that's okay, I'm sure you don't need that to help her learn. And one day, she will be wiping the floor with your body, and you'll laugh about how feeble she seemed when she started.

[yat_chum]

Hi Dim Mak,

"A man who loves music can make great progress in karate; a man who does not love music will never perform karate correctly." Mas Oyama

I think we have discussed the virtues of dancing here before. Bruce Lee the worlds most famous martial artist was also a cha-cha champion and instructor in Hong Kong in his teens. I remember reading a magazine article on how a Karate instructor had taken up ballet and it greatly improved his Karate.

How would you suggest initiating her to rough contact?

I would just talk to her about it. I personally think that it is important to do some of the rough stuff now and again to prepare for a real life situation. You are not doing a student any good by always treating them with kid gloves. The "cube of doom" is a good idea as it would demonstrate the power the blows to the pad holders with minimal risk of injury. Inga's other suggestion (Inga is full of good ideas) of a separate sparring night was a good one but this may not be practical. In my old Wing Chun school my Sifu would end the class and then have an extra half an hour or so for more realistic (for want of a better phrase) sparring. As the class had officially finished there was no obligation or pressure to join in.

[David Grantham]

Hey guys,
Just wanted to say that many years ago in Boston we did do this training on occasion in the morning boston class. It certainly was an eye opener( or closer, ) for evasion.
Dave

[Dim Mak]

Hi everyone,

Sorry it has taken me so long to get back to you guys; it's been a very busy couple of weeks for me. I just wanted you all to know that I appreciate your input. I tried several of the suggestions (everyone like the cube of doom BTW) but I found it was Inga's advice about ignoring the fact that she is female, that really seems to have worked the best (we have trained 3 times since then). I just stopped thinking about it so much and started slipping in the occasional hard shot. At first I could tell that it caught her off guard and disrupted her game plan, but after a few partner rotations she would just take the shot or block it and not let on that anything had happened. Of course I was still using control, but I hit her just as hard as I would have hit any guy of the same size. The guys were complimenting her on taking hard shots and I think it made her feel like she was "one of the guys" so to speak. I've decided to hold off on the belt drill for a few weeks, until she gets used to the new pace. Thanks again for all of your input.

[Inga]

Hi Dim Mak,

Thanks for the update. Indeed, how could one not like the cube of doom :) haha, I am glad you tried it. I am tickled that something I said helped you. I am pretty sure I am never hit as hard as the lads hit each other, but likewise, as you point out, it's not just about power, it's about skill. Sometimes a step on the foot or head tap is enough to teach me my position is wrong. Going normal speed, and sometimes using more advanced technique so you can show her where you are taking her is going to work wonders I reckon. I am regularly humbled in class, and it is a good reminder to me to work hard. Another personality might get discouraged, but I'm sure you'll find the right balance for her, as you do for other students. If she is your only female, maybe you are worried she will leave if you are too hard on her :) Do let us know how you get on with the belt training. I mentioned this is class and we discussed it briefly, but we have not tried it. Now I am nostalgic for the cube of doom, we have not done that in ages....