Best methods in stopping a fight between 2 other people?

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Postby Inga » Sun May 06, 2007 9:14 am

Kuroyama, welcome to the forum. Just quickly for those of us Stateside, you are about 6' 3", 250lbs or so. And for UK that'd be about erm, 18 stone? Math not being my strong point. Yes, if I stood between two fighting people (I'm 162cm, 54kg) I don't think they would notice too much :) I would probably not do too well taking the hit either, not for want of enthusiasm, but for lack of stature. But as you say a good strategy for some, just not all.
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Postby SunTzu » Mon May 07, 2007 6:26 pm

Best methods in stopping a fight between 2 other people?



Start yelling loudly that the staff started handing out free drinks inside for all.


:lol:
Do not try !

Do, or do not !
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Postby Tarandus » Tue May 08, 2007 6:46 pm

Sun Tzu: what if that's the reason that the fight started in the first place, as everyone got off their faces on the free booze?

Inga: I'm reminded of Yang Lu Chan, on 'Sizing up an Opponent':

"When squaring off with an opponent, first observe whether his physique is great or small. If it is great, then he must have considerable brute strength, and I should respond with superior skill. If he is of slight build, then he will be skillful, and I must attack with power. In this way, I overcome the weak with strength and the mighty with cleverness. Regardless of size, if my opponent adopts high postures, then I must make use of low postures; if he adopts low postures, then I make use of high ones. This is the method of high and low, yin and yang."
[From 'Yang Family Secret Transmissions', edited by Douglas Wile]


I think this is an interesting quotation from the original founder of the Yang style. It is generally assumed that Tai Chi eschews any use of hard power, but here Yang Lu Chan is advising it in the case of a weaker opponent. Clearly no mercy is shown, and he recognises that in a desparate situation, one has to use such natural advantages as one posesses. Kind regards, T.
'Have patience with everything unresolved in your heart and try to love the questions. Live the questions now. You will gradually, without even noticing it, live your way into the answer.' Rainer Maria Rilke.
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Re: Best methods in stopping a fight between 2 other people?

Postby Phalanxpursos » Sun May 27, 2007 9:02 pm

hairy fingers wrote:I know really drunk guys won't listen if I get inbetween them and talk in some cases. Stepping inbetween them seems very dumb and I could get a smack but just letting it happen isn't right.


Obedience, drunk people still can have some kind of understanding in 'good manners', 'respect' & 'politeness'. You just have to persuade them in using it, maybe even if they have a black out it might still be possible to talk somekind of sense into them and calm them down. The quality of life is worthy of honor & respect, even when drunk.
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"VIII: Restore Morale with Firmness"
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drunks and rationality

Postby jfraser » Mon May 28, 2007 11:11 am

Phalanxpursos,

With respect, I must disagree with your post:

.l
Obedience, drunk people still can have some kind of understanding in 'good manners', 'respect' & 'politeness'. You just have to persuade them in using it, maybe even if they have a black out it might still be possible to talk somekind of sense into them and calm them down. The quality of life is worthy of honor & respect, even when drunk.
.

It is my professional experience that most drunks and certainly people that are addicted to or abuse alcohol regularly, most often do not have some kind of understanding. good manners, respect and politeness, etc. Of course there is the happy drunk or the person that just goes to sleep. It also depends upon how drunk person is and their tolerance for alcohol, as well as issues of temperament. You seem to assume rationality and good judgment goes with a "pickled brain and nervous system". I don't think so. If this was true then why is there so much a problem with drunk driving, alcohol related spouse abuse, child abuse, etc., in the US, anyway?
People that have black outs or grey outs, are well on the path of addiction, as it takes a lot of alcohol over a long period of time, to produce black outs and grey outs. And people that have these episodes can do very, what you might call, immoral. or nasty things, and not remember they did it the next day.

An addict has no morality.

James
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Re: drunks and rationality

Postby Phalanxpursos » Mon May 28, 2007 12:17 pm

The quality of life is worthy of honor & respect, even when drunk.

jfraser wrote:With respect, I must disagree with your post


I am very thankful for you delivering this constructive argument, since it is my motive to not have direct interest in the outcome of this debate.

jfraser wrote:It is my professional experience that most drunks and certainly people that are addicted to or abuse alcohol regularly, most often do not have some kind of understanding. good manners, respect and politeness, etc.


Wisdom are conclusions we make from experience in general, so you are welcome to share your experiences here with us it will be an educative experience.

But read what it says, I opened with 'obedience'. Alcohol in high dosis decreases mental control, the sober person can assist the drunk person's temporary shortage in mental control. Some people alone all don't know what morality means, you don't necessarily have to be drunk to have such a line of thought. Don't talk about anything related to martial arts or fighting with a drunk person, repeat the words 'calm down', 'relax','good manners', 'respect', 'politeness', in a friendly way you have to persuade them. I have 20 years experience with aggressive diabetic relatives, severe psychotic friends and grew up in an alcoholic environment, so I know how aggressive some people can react when they lose mental control.


jfraser wrote:An addict has no morality.

James


Learning comes from education, any time is a good time to learn and any time is a good time to educate. It can be accomplished, remember I did have my studies of morality. So it's all in the education, stimulate public awareness towards civic virtues & morale values. But some people don't even know what morality means, so it will be useless to explain a drunk person what morality means unless they ask for the explanation.

That is why I advice to use simple words such as 'respect', 'good manners' or 'politeness', I am sure they would know the meaning of such words.
Strategemata Liber Secundus;
"VIII: Restore Morale with Firmness"
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Postby William » Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:55 pm

Try running figure eights around them(circles if its one guy).... seriously if they're drunk enough they will fall unconscious.
The big thing here though is psychology, always leave an out. By an out I mean try to create a variable in the situation where both parties can get out without shame(aka Ego Damage).
Sometimes doing something totally outlandish will break them out of Primal mode long enough for you to totally grasp they're attention.

But unfortunately it doesn't always work this way. So if its gonna come to an idiot fight no matter what either leave it alone, or practice your Pre-Emptive Striking

This is not about People Fighting remember that, always remember that. This is Ego Fighting Ego this is far more dangerous in someways as Ego seeks to preserve itself in some cases even though it may cause death of the organism.

oh btw jfraser I have to disagree with you on the morality thing if addicts had no morality how would they become sober?
I'm an addict, Always will be. But I'm sober, Always will be.
Addiction is weakness, not Evil/Lacking in Morality whatever. Its weakness and the willing handover of free will to that very weakness.

Peace out Bro's and Sis's
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Phalanxpursos and William

Postby jfraser » Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:15 am

Phal.,
I value and appreciate your input and life experience. Perhaps I should be more clear about someone who occasionally drinks too much and someone who is addicted to alcohol. As far as I know several of the 12 steps in AA or NA are about getting one's lost morality back, and surrender to a higher power.

William,
Sorry if I offended you. I respect your experience and recovery!
Maybe I was not clear. An active crack or heroin addict usually does not think of morality or ethics when they steal their mother's rent money or jewelry to pay for the next fix.

Persons in recovery certainly can be a whole other story.

James
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Postby lilman » Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:44 am

Personally I have broken up a lot of fights in my lifetime. I grew up in a not so good area. A lot of gang violence etc, and I have used Chin na to disarm opponents with knives before. I just keep my distance till the right moment, grab, restrain, disarm. And all the fights I ever broken up, I would stand in between the opponents (ussually one of my drunk friends and someone else) and just stare at them with my peripheral vision not saying a word. The moment one reacted I would bounce them both away (ie. open with wardoff in Taiji) and either restrain the most agressive one, warning the other of the consequences of further action, or no further action was required. Sometimes just me standing there was enough. You would be surprised how much respect you can get from some people just not backing down. And if it is a more agressive opponent trying to fight me, I ussually could calm them down with words, still holding my ground. Even in situations where I had more than one person threatening me.
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