Best methods in stopping a fight between 2 other people?

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Best methods in stopping a fight between 2 other people?

Postby hairy fingers » Sun Feb 26, 2006 7:25 am

This means that it's your place and you are responsible for
making sure other people aren't hurt or items damaged.
How do you intervene and make the parties step outside and fight ?
I know really drunk guys won't listen if I get inbetween them and talk in some cases. Stepping inbetween them seems very dumb and I could get a smack but just letting it happen isn't right. Is one way to get some back-up and then try and throw them off the premises .hopefully without getting attacked? I have seen a shop get badly damaged due to fighting before and the owners were petrified to stop the guys.
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Postby scramasax57 » Sun Feb 26, 2006 6:49 pm

the problem is that if you immediately go to restrain one guy, the other guy will use this as an opportunity to beat him. i can't think of any safe way to do this without temporarily incapacitating one guy (kick to the groin, strong blow to the solar plexus to knock out wind). while the first guy is recovering, i would quickly remove the second, return, put the first in a good hold, wait a bit, then make him leave by a different exit if possible. there are some problems here of course; it's not advisable to keep people in holds for an extended period of time if you can avoid it. also it may be possible to remedy the situation without striking anyone, which would be better since striking is more likely to lead to bad injuries and lawsuits. but that's the best plan i can come up with, hopefully someone might have an alternative.
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Postby DOM » Sun Feb 26, 2006 10:32 pm

Well this is a chance you take when you have parties at your place.If your not willing to take this chance avoid the situation do not have one.If someone can not respect you and your place,drunk or not well they have to go.I would hope you had some good friends to help bounce this clowns out if they are friend of yours and they are just to drunk to speek sence to then they still got to go.But you should make sure they do not get hurt in the prossess.If their not your friends just disrepectfull punks then,well take srams advise.
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Postby mookie » Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:55 am

Say, "You two @#$#$s want to fight, you can #$@$n fight me! Now who's first?."
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Postby Yatish Parmar » Tue Mar 07, 2006 5:38 am

I have to break up fight usually every day. Sarcasm is usually the best way in my experience. If you take the piss enough they stop focussing on each other for enough time to return to the basic i'm a bigger man than you posturing. Often using forceful body language and tones is enough to stop them in the squaring up stage too.

Once a fight starts or the posturing reaches a certain point though the only thing that stops the fight is physical intervention. I've had to stop many fights where several people are needed to restrain each individual. Often it's been neccesary to just pin the kid's arms to his side and pick him up in a bear hug and carry him off into another room. (Not that my midget self could pick up anyone.)

I disagree with hairy though in that you should never persuade to individuals to step outside and fight if they are under your responsibility. It means thatyou are not doing your duty.
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Postby Inga » Tue Mar 07, 2006 6:48 am

call 999. and tell 'em you've called 999 (from behind the sofa if necessary) an' perhaps they'll leg it themselves.
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Postby hairy fingers » Tue Mar 07, 2006 7:52 am

[quote="Yatish Parmar"]I have to break up fight usually every day. Sarcasm is usually the best way in my experience. If you take the piss enough they stop focussing on each other for enough time to return to the basic i'm a bigger man than you posturing. Often using forceful body .[/quote]
How do you use sarcasm? In my situation, I'm probably having to deal with drunk as hell, dumb hooligans.I think sarcasm would be over their heads. Saying you have called the cops does nothing but make you look weaker. I doubt any fights will prolong though once started since everyone knows I'm within hands reach of many,many weapons.Pens, broom,hot water. heavy objects etc.
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Postby Inga » Tue Mar 07, 2006 1:52 pm

well, you did ask for a solution that would hopefully resolve things without "getting attacked". i agree sarcasm would work successfully for some people in some situations, not all. i don't think that asking for help makes one weak. i'm also bemused why you would attack someone with a pen or hot water if they were fighting? surely that just escalates things? the suggestions so far are to physically subdue, use words to distract and diffuse the tension or call for help. these all seem to make sense to me.
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Postby scramasax57 » Tue Mar 07, 2006 5:02 pm

999? is that the british version of 911?

yatish, if i remember correctly you are a teacher. what age kids do you work with? i like your ideas of using sarcasm to make the would-be combatants feel ridiculous in the early stages, but it seems to me that once the altercation has become at all physical (at first contact) it is always necessary to physcially separate the kids. that's been my experience teaching at yang's, anyway. i don't have to break up fights every day though; luckily we only have to deal with physical confrontations between students very rarely.

stabbing someone with a pen, throwing hot water on them, hitting them with a heavy object, these are all great ways to get sued or possibly land in jail. causing any injury that lasts or leaves a mark, esepcially if you are just breaking up a fight, is going to cost you bigtime. i still feel the best way is quickly knock the wind out of them. there is a very small chance of accidental serious injury (collapsed lung, interfering with rhythm of heart, etc) when striking the solar plexus, but it's a relatively easy way to incapacitate someone if you have trained well. remember you need to incapacitate them, this is your goal not causing pain which will only escalate the problem. if they can't breath, they can't fight. if they can't fight, that gives you time to separate and control the combatants.
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Postby Yatish Parmar » Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:52 am

I teach kids aged 11-16. I teach in a pretty rough school. Two weeks ago I was threatened by two kids with a knife whose gang were involved in an extremely violent robbery later in the same day. They have now come back, threatening me because they think that I had something to do with them getting nicked after the fact. So the fights that I have to break up can be very violent.

Like I said using sarcasm and forceful language only works in the early stages. in my experience, when two people are squaring up, or when facing a group of people, there is usually only one person that you need to isolate because they are the one holding the anger. Once you have neutralised them and made them less willing to fight they will carry the rest away.

Once the fight starts physical intervention (or a wailing siren!) is the only way to stop it.
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Postby Inga » Wed Mar 08, 2006 6:35 am

having lived in the us and uk, i would add the observation that the british nature is far more responsive to having the mick taken. americans as a general rule are far too serious about themselves (look how spitting image failed) and sarcasm (used here) might just get two bladdered blokes going for it even more. dunno. just a thought. it's early and i still haven't had me cuppa.

zipwolf, does your girl notice any cultural differences like that?
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Postby zipwolf » Wed Mar 08, 2006 3:05 pm

lol, yeah she does. She's not a big a fan of sarcasm as the brits most definately.
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Postby scramasax57 » Wed Mar 08, 2006 10:11 pm

thanks yatish, i really appreciate you lending your considerable experience here. i definitely agree with your take on it. i'm glad my students are all fairly tame; occasionally they'll hit each other, but sofar none of them have dared to really challenge me or theother teachers, erbally or physically. good luck!
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Postby Inga » Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:21 am

yatish, i am curious about how you apply yourself physically to break up fights. does your kung fu training come into use in a techincal way? i imagine that generally your basic instincts and reactions would be improved because of martial arts, but do you acutally use blocks (against punches or knife), chin na or other take down moves? the students who look to mix it up, rather than just be posers, do they have marital arts training that you are aware of, or is it mosty just street learned fighting? last year a lad here from our class (and his friend) were threatened by 3 guys, and he used his training to get in a few fast (he is very fast) well aimed kicks and punches to buy him running time. knowing what to do and where to do it without thinking was mighty useful. we have a teacher in our class who works at a neighbouring school which is in a tougher area. His students know he is skilled at kung fu (i believe some of them take marital arts and boxing) and they respect that, i believe so far all he has had to deal with is trash talk because they are forewarned that he knows how to hande himself. i think he did have to take a knife off a girl recently, but again, was able to use words.
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Postby scramasax57 » Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:32 pm

one of my cousins helps out at as a qigong teacher at a juvie hall. it's supposed to help them learn to relax, give them an interest, better self-control, etc. i asked him what he would do if one of the kids attacked him with a knife. he said "have a bigger knife". as much as like crocodile dundee as that sounds, he actually was speaking metaphorically; he said it was relatively rare for a teacher to be attacked because for the kids they still had the psychological advantage of being authority figures and so represented all the forces of society that could be brought down on them. basically they subconsciously saw attacking another kid as simple, but attacking a teacher as attacking all the social institutions they knew, including the police. he'd had threats, but never any actual action.

is this similar to your experience, yatish?
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Postby Yatish Parmar » Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:39 pm

I'm not that good (meaning I don't train hard enough) to use what I learn/have learnt in real life fighting situations. Apart from basic blocks and straightforward punches. (Which is really all you need in any fight.)

Chin-na is purely opportunistic, and I wouldn't walk into any altercation with the idea in my mind that I was going to use chin-na. Besides it is illegal to lock a pupil's joints when restraining them.

The other thing is: I have been threatened with a knife several times (not while i've been teaching!) and the knife is usually on the back hand to be powered in. Most martial artists train knife defence with the attacker *poking* them with the front hand. I've never seen anyone do that on the street. EVER. It's always grab with the front and stab with the rear, or swing across the body and slash.

Back on topic, I either:

a) go in and just get in the middle and get right into the aggressors face, making eye contact and blocking their body, arms spread, moving into them, and mouthing off. Typical street aggression that, think of two people squaring up. The trick is to remind the pupil that I am the bigger man, they do what I say.

b) go from behind and get my arms around the person and drag them away. This is not always good because arms are flailing and you need other people to take care of the other fighter. Or the person you are holding back is likely to get licked in the head a few times.

c) Shout really loudly about how they are acting like a bunch of pricks and take control of the whole surrounding space with my body language. This only works when there aren't a bunch of people around the fight.

If I am escorting someone around I often press the two cavities above the elbow really lightly. Not to let them know they are in pain.. but they follow willingly without knowing why.

(Inga) Speaking of being attacked/threatened by a group of guys. It happened to me last year (again). Although (at the end) I was whacked over the head with a pole by a psycho I still walked off without getting beaten up or shot, with my wallet and phone. It's again to do with knowing who is carrying the *will* of a group and dealing solely with that person. In my experience, letting people know that you do martial arts is an exercise in getting yourself into trouble.

Long post.
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stopping a fight.

Postby dc » Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:44 pm

crotch kick X2. done.
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stare into the soul but be prepared

Postby deinfami » Fri Apr 07, 2006 1:10 am

some of you may know where this originates. i've used this tactic in the office with an overlooming boss, unruly employees, and in the bar before a physical confrontation was immenent. take it for what its worth...... some have laughed when i tell them to use this to break up a fight, but it almost always works for me.

stare in to the left eye of your opponent ..... when you do this stare into their soul. once your opponent turns away...... move on to something else, do not make eye contact again, but do not turn your back. if your opponent does not look away, there may not be a conscious to guide what they are about to do.... so get away and resort to stronger measures............. LIKE MACE OR A BILLY CLUB or like dc said, "crotch kick x 2. done." The Cartman Maneuvre to RoShamBo is also effective.... :shock: NOT REALLY.

Seriously, try it on an unsuspecting person who won't respect your personal, etc. Like I said, "It works for me."
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Postby scramasax57 » Fri Apr 07, 2006 1:47 pm

eye contact is a good way. i've been told i'm pretty good at intimidation, although personally i think it's easier for anyone who's 6'0" 200lbs. i'd say it's important to learn how to keep a stern-looking face without looking stupid, and learning the small parts of body posture that communicate power and aggression.
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Postby Yatish Parmar » Sat Apr 08, 2006 6:58 am

I think there is a lot more to a *thousand yard stare* than looking stern.
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