1st time sparring and I am exhausted. Why?

[floydhuynh]

Hi -

I have been practicing Gongfu for more than 3 years (Choy Lay Fut, Plum Blossom) and I have never sparred. Until last night, I have been called out and sparred with my senior students. It's only a minute-sparring but after that I feel so tired. My calves' muscles are exhausted and tensed. I don't think I have anything much during the sparring. Typically, I try to block and counter-attack. I normally work out in the class more than 3 hours and my stances are still strong. Does anyone remember the same feeling when you first spar? Is it the mind that makes body tired or something else? How can I get over this feeling? spar more and will get used to it?!!!

Floyd

[Pooh_Tao]

Try relaxing and controlling your breath while sparring. I read that lots of people use up their energy quickly because they're so constantly on edge in a fight, particularly in the muscles around the shoulders and neck. This could make more sense as it being your first time you would be particularly excited and tense etc.

It does sound a little strange though as you sound like you're in good shape, perhaps it was just a strange one time occurence, try sparring again in a few days and tell us how it goes.

[scramasax57]

might also be an aftereffect of adrenaline surge.

[citrus538]

You were probably just really tense. I remember the first time I had to spar as a kid. . .I was extremely nervous and tense. Then I got kicked in the head and decided to quit TKD : )

To be honest, the teacher didn't teach us anything about fighting. Typical McDojo : |

[Inga]

hullo floyd, may i ask do you "work out in class" three hours in a week (three nights a week for one hour) or 3 hour sessions each time? why did you wait for 3 years before sparring? (just curious) is the sparring very different from the types of drills you have in class? is it only your calves which are sore?

[DOM]

Yes floyed,spar more this is the only way to over come this.Being in shape has nothing to do with how you will respond in sparring or a real confertation.Peaple can train for decades and still get the dren kick out of them,because they do not spar.You have to learn to over come the fight or flight responce.Are naturel instinked is to flea it is the best self defence.Like scam said it's adrenalen.Your heart will race your legs get heavy your breath ereagular and your body will tense up.This is natural and happens to every one even pro.fighters.You have to keep at it and learn to control and harness it.You can learn to use it to you advantage.Your sences become acute and your awarness is hightened,But this takes training.First you have to be confident in your tecknique and your self.This starts by first being in good shape,fighting shape.You must do sparring drills first to prepair you mentaly emotionaly and physicaly.Train your forms(solo and partner) as if they were a life and death battle.You have to have partners you can trust that will keep stepping up the intensity intill their is a very fine line between sparring and the real thing with out hurting each other.Getting banged up is a part of this training but never ever should it turn into one of you intentionaly hurting the other.But with out sparring and the tast and feel of battle will one be able to over come this.Keep training.

[floydhuynh]

Thanks much for sharing your experiences.

Inga, my class is very informal -- a group of 5 practitioner including the teacher. We meet twice a week and 2-3 hours each time. I guess every one is doing his stuff outside the class as well. We do variety of forms, 2-man fighting form sequence, body conditioning training. The purpose why we practice is more like exercises, we don't focus in fighting and that's what we are lack of.

Like Scram said it might be "after effect of adrenaline surge" so it's not just my calves muscles, my entire body is drained out :^). It's fun to experience that feeling though.

Again, thanks!

[Inga]

cheers floyd, i guess i'm still surprised you waited so long to spar. i would say that kung fu is a living art, it must be fully practiced to be understood, appreciated and (one hopes) improved and ultimately (one really hopes) perfected. to my mind the whole point of body conditioning is to prepare one for sparring. our school is much larger, we have access to training four nights a week for just over an hour. each student decides how often to come, we all train in different degrees and for different reasons i suppose. on fridays we have sparring, which is shorter in length but a smaller group which allows us the opportunity to put our weekly drills into practice. body conditioning is always part of this session. i'm glad you've started to spar, i'm sure in time you will come to enjoy it. i find post adrenaline rushes never sink to one place, but effect me all over. still, i must defer to scramasax on that one, he did biology at school and i didn't :)

[mookie]

Whoa, big difference between forms and the real thing huh? Now you come to realize what your level of condition has to be for live situations versus drill work. Adreneline is a big part of it, you waste so much energy just being excited. It will take a long time before your body can handle that stress. It won't get better, the getting excited part, controlling your breath and all that isn't going to happen. If your able to do it in the classroom you might want to compete in a tounament with an audience and it will start all over. The best thing to do is just keep training harder to get your body used to extreme stress levels. Lots of cardio and anaerobic cardio (sprint work) will do the trick. As far as tension in the upper body you obviously need some if someone is punching your head. On the other hand, good striking requires a loose upper body, so try and relax. Breathe deep. How do you do that you ask. Hard, hard training.

[Walter Wong]

If your basic training is solid, you shouldn't think about doing a great technique in sparring. Stay relaxed and release explosively when you need to. Moving around too much can make you more tired as well. Move as much as you need to based on what your opponent is doing. Recognize distance. How far you need to be to make contact with them and how far you need to keep just out of their reach. Attack and defense should be treated as one. Treating your fighting style as first defense then attack is doing too many things at once. Best to have attack and defense as one to simply things. It's hard enough to fight. Good fighting is even harder. Why do so much in sparring to complicate things?

Be patient and spar lots. Good things never came easy.

[Inga]

floyd, how is the sparring coming along? i'm thinking that many folks in the new year are exhausted by training after the holidays - feast and frolic or indulgences and inertia :) but surely no one here on the forum is like that...

[jellybean]

probably should work on foot work.
People get tired, tighten up, and rusty when they are uncomfortable with ranking distinace.
random thought

[yeniseri]

pana,

You need to work on cardiovascular conditioning by running and lifting weight. Jumping rope is good. You can have all the skill but if you are not physically conditioned, then all is gone. Better to have to conditioning and no MA skill but you will have a fighting chance, at least.

Work on grappling skills more!

[Jack]

Interesting how I just read this. Yesterday, I was watching 2 groups of Taekwon-do students sparring. The first group was a bunch of 7-9 year olds, and although their skills were somewhat lacking, they went at it with gusto. At the end, they were still the bouncing energizer rabbits they were before the sparring session. But what is interesting is the 2nd group of 20-30 year olds, who were senior students above brown belt and they
were total wrunged-out after the sparring session; covered in sweat with the look of someone who just ran the marathon.

The only thing that was observable to me was that the older students were so "TENSE", but the younger kids were just having fun. The "rabbits" were totally relaxed and were "enjoying" themselves. While the "seasoned" warrior-wanna-be's were trying so hard to prove themselves or impress the master.

Maybe there's a lesson here somewhere?

[scramasax57]

that kids have boundless amounts of energy for physical activity and are almost impossible to really exhaust? that's been known by every parent or teacher for years. it sounds to me like you're suggesting that taking a relaxed approach to training is better than concentrating. while i agree that some people beat themselves up too much and strain against the limits of their physical ability, i don't think it's at all appropriate to take a more childike approach to training. i teach young kung fu students, and i can state with confidence that they get very little done. you really have to coax work out of them. they progress much slower than a teenager or younger adult. so the reason they're less tired is because 1) kids have lots of energy and 2) they don't concentrate and train at their maximum level. once you get older and are able to think things through more clearly, most people begin training to their limits and progressing much faster. i don't see the fact that the older group was more tired as a negative at all; if you're not sweating and exhausted at the end of a training session, you didn't really train.

[Jack]

... if you're not sweating and exhausted at the end of a training session, you didn't really train.

If this is an example of how you teach kung-fu, then I truely feel sorry for your students. The purpose of sparring is to put your conditioning into practice in a controlled environment. It is not training, but the test of your training. Your approach is so much like that of many American teachers in public schools who teach students to pass tests instead of teaching the subject material. What a pity.

[scramasax57]

number one, i teach kung fu the way i am told to. number two, i don't think that training to exhaustion is appropriate for kids. if you read carefully, you can see that i meant that statement for adults. if you think you can train to fight without breaking a sweat, i wish you luck in any actual encounters you have because you're going to need it.

It is not training, but the test of your training.

i cannot agree with that. full on fighting is the test. sparring is very much training. this is the policy of YMAA as i understand it.

edit: i want to reiterate that i do not endorse exhaustive, intense training of any kind for anyone under 14. they should work hard and sweat, but they shouldn't be dog tired. kids shouldn't have that much pressure on them.

[tim 1 mc]

Hello I'am new to this forum know thou this the Patron of endurance is Saint Uriel:In that God is my light.

[white dragon]

I know it's a bit late, but just a suggestion-you were saying that your calf muscles were sore. It could be that you are bouncing around alot, and it could be easier to keep a stedy stance....just a siggestion

[DOM]

if being sore from sparring, doing,forms, basics, streatching or conditioning is a concern or problem for anyone then they should stick to video games or the computer and stay away from all martial arts and sports.It is a must that you push your self to be better.That meens physicaly,mentaly and spiritualy.The best way to do this is to push your self past what you thought you were capable of.This is hard for one to do by them selves,this is why a structured class and the person leading it is so important.This is also why I feel more of use should make it a point to attend seminars.You get a chance to practice with others who mite train harder,move better,react and respond differantly and help push you further then you can by your self or your regular training partners.When one trains with the same peaple all the time training becomes some what stagnate and overly comfortable no matter how good your training partners are.Over time you learn who they are how they react,move and respond.There are a million resonse why challange matchs took place,but the most important and benificial was to test their skills against some one who they rarley or never incounterd before.In Japanies it is called a Shai .This is why tournaments were organized and were a good test of your training,now it's all about the trophies,and most are a wast of time.You need to test your self and skills against others that you do not regualary train with from time to time.As training for sparring goes.We trained to be able to fight multable opponents for a minimum of 20 minuts with out a rest.The test was to fight one fight after another with out a break against a fresh opponent.IMO this was what it was all about.It was not so important how well you could fight but how hard you would and willingness to continue no matter what.It was all about fighting spirit.