A poke in the eye

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A poke in the eye

Postby yat_chum » Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:56 pm

In most self defence classes you are taught to attack the eyes by using a finger jabs but it is not as easy as that, because the eye is a small target with a quick relay to the brain and instinctively programmed to get out of the way. If you want to attack the eyes the best way is to use the anatomy of the face to guide your fingers into place. I use two techniques to do this the first is to palm strike to the chin with a vertical tiger claw. As you hit the chin the finger automatically lever into the eyes. The second is to do a palm strike aimed at the cheek bone with the thumb open so that the hand is a L shape as first technique you will easily find the eye. The best way to train the techniques is to use a live partner, learning to use the contours of the face to find the eyes but go slowly and gently and make sure you partner has their eyes shut . For using the techniques with power a "Bob" might be useful. Please remember that this is a SELF DEFENCE TECHNIQUE ONLY. Jo
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Postby zipwolf » Sun Nov 27, 2005 6:21 am

i dont like poking people in the eye. I feel like an arse. I'd only do it if it was someone who was seriously trying to hurt me, and i couldnt hurt him in any other possible way.

I'd rather break an arm then poke an eye.
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Postby Inga » Sun Nov 27, 2005 10:15 pm

'wolf, perhaps you could survey people for your audio documentary to see which is more common, to be poked in the eye or to do the poking. this may lead to some illegal street fights and more data ! but surely if someone is truly trying to do you some mischief (as jo says, self defense only) any target is a good one? i suspect i would be too squemish to hit anyone in the eye, wallop to the nether regions every time and leg it. unless it was another lass. then it might be a cat fight - girls can be nasty when cornered. we have had a few self defense sessions. one thing our instructor taught us was to place two fingers to the windpipe ( at that little dimple at the top of the rib cage, sorry i flunked bio and don't know the real name) and then twist and push forward (straightening out the arm) at the same time. lots of people in the class couldn't bear being touched there. i could manage that, but didn't like doing it to anyone else. shudder.
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Postby yat_chum » Mon Nov 28, 2005 8:34 am

Hi Zipwolf, going for peoples eyes is something that I not would do lightly but desperate situations call for desperate actions. I normally try to avoid conflicts even to the point of eating a big slice of humble pie but If anyone was to going to harm my family I would fight like the devil himself, morals would go out of the window.
A friend of mine was once set upon in a club by two guys who meant some serious harm (another friend had previously had his skull fractured in the same club for no apparent reason). My friend could tell that they these guys were “speeding” and that he would only have one chance before getting hammered. My friend dealt with the situation by ripping off the nearest attacker’s ear and shouting “F**k off or I’ll have to really hurt someone” and threw the ear at the attackers. This extremely cruel action stopped the altercation straight away, even the bouncers gave my friend a wide birth. My friend said afterwards that because they were high he would have been very difficult to stop them without killing them and it was only because of their paranoia that he had got away. Like I already said desperate situations call for desperate actions. Jo

Hi Inga, to jab someone in the hollow of the throat (I don’t know what it’s called either) can be tricky under pressure, again like the eye jab use shape of the body to guide your strike. Aim a palm strike a the chest and move your up towards the neck an you should find your target every time. After enough practice you will be able to do it easily blindfolded. To kick in the swingers (as they call them up North) don’t try to do a direct kick, go up between the legs it doesn’t matter which part of you foot makes contact it hurts the same. A hard kick to the shins can be just as effective at stopping an attacker and don’t just kick the shin scrape down, ending in a foot stamp. Jo
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Postby Inga » Mon Nov 28, 2005 1:39 pm

well, i suppose jo it depends on what kind of circumstances you are in. i would hope not to be in any establishment with head cases like the ones you describe. still, bad things happen to good people. i have been grabbed at work in the past, which in theory should be a safe place. although i don't think those guys were trying to kill me, just borrow me i guess. i found i was reluctant to perform the two finger thing until my instructor walked up swiftly and grabbed me VERY hard and i was caught unawares and i did manage it without thinking. as someone in my class always tells me, "don't think just do". however, could i do it when i wasn't just practicing it over and over? i doubt it. no, hit to the groin would be my instinct, although my backfists are getting a bit more lively. perhaps a zing to the ear might buy me a few seconds running time. swingers huh? how did i never hear that in yorkshire? musta been the polite company i kept -haha. i'm adding it to my internal dictionary though :)
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Postby shuharicrane » Mon Nov 28, 2005 11:51 pm

The eyes are one of the four major targets (the others being ears, throat and, groin) and therefore a great place to strike. Those are great methods for training accuracy with such strikes.

Eye strikes are interesting because the target is so sensitive that it doesn't require much force to do the trick. In fact, the strike does not even need to hit the eye to work. I find that simply touching the eye or even near the eye (eyebrow, bridge of the nose, etc.) is enough to create an opportunity to enact a second strike elsewhere, or even go on to create an offbalance and throw. If I get lucky and hit the eye, then kudos to me. But think about a time when you have been poked in the eye with something, it is enough to make you not want to get poked in the eye. It is natural to flinch when faced with the threat of a foreign object impacting the eye, whether it hits or not. In otherwords it isn't neccessary to have impeccable acuracy to affect someone's vision. That is not to say don't train it, because we all know that repetition creates muscle memory and if the muscles remember how to do it then the brain doesn't have to think about it as much when we are forced to do it.

Now if the intent of the strike is to actually impale the eyes on the finger that is another story and I would not hesitate to use such a technique if forced to defend my life or the life of family.

By the way it is called the Sternoclavicular Notch (the hollow above the sternum).

Nate
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Re: A poke in the eye

Postby Flip » Mon Jan 16, 2006 7:43 pm

jo tunmore wrote:instinctively programmed to get out of the way. If you want to attack the eyes the best way is to use the anatomy of the face to guide your fingers into place. . Jo


i've been taught a similar technique in hunggar, it's the classic: tiger palm to the nose and your claw rakes down the face incl. the eyes. You can get other vital pressure spots in the face too this way. There's also double tiger ckaw to the face, same principle.

With the 'finger pokes' you describe, we typically use either a crane hand which is good because even if you get a soft spot near the eye, it still does damage, or a snake hand, which is definitely more difficult to land well.
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Postby zipwolf » Wed Jan 18, 2006 5:35 am

If anyone is curious about poking, do a search on Bil-jee.
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Postby Flip » Wed Jan 18, 2006 11:33 am

the training for this that i've read is to basically, poke hard objects all day long, especially tree trunks, rocks, the wall, whatever. After a couple years supposedly you can break rocks with a finger poke....lol...not sure how dedicated you need to be for that, but i guess it's possible.
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Postby scramasax57 » Wed Jan 18, 2006 7:50 pm

this will also damage your eyesight because of qi channels that are located in the fingers. which is why master yang no longer recommends doing fingertip pushups on the actual fingertips, just on the pads.
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Postby zipwolf » Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:02 am

One piece of advice for doing them on the pads! Make sure the joints on each finger arent locked, otherwise you wont be getting any gains! Gotta leave them straight, but not locked.
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Postby scramasax57 » Thu Jan 19, 2006 3:42 pm

not quite true; you'll still strengthen the tendons and muscles in the forearm and palm. but you're right, they should not be locked out.
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Postby zipwolf » Thu Jan 19, 2006 4:52 pm

You may get gains, but they'd hardly be as good as without locking them, because you take away strain from the tendons/ligaments, and put them on the joints. And joints dont likie.
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Postby scramasax57 » Thu Jan 19, 2006 8:50 pm

exactly.
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Postby Flip » Fri Jan 20, 2006 3:03 pm

scramasax57 wrote:this will also damage your eyesight because of qi channels that are located in the fingers. which is why master yang no longer recommends doing fingertip pushups on the actual fingertips, just on the pads.


that's a good point.
there is training you can do for your eyesight (i think this has been mentioned to some degree in another thread, but damaging your eyes wouldnt be a good idea....unless you want to be the blind swordsman
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Postby DOM » Fri Jan 20, 2006 4:14 pm

I gess playing the guitar or anything simular will also damage the eye's?
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Postby zipwolf » Fri Jan 20, 2006 6:21 pm

Its possible. So far my eyes are fine, for the most part. I suppose its what guage string you are playing with, as the stress would be deeper with that, whereas i play with very low guage strings (bendy!) that require very little presses (although i lose some of the "heavy" sound)
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Postby scramasax57 » Sat Jan 21, 2006 12:11 am

even the heaviest guitar strings don't require the majority of your bodyweight to play them, so the pressure isn't even close to the pressure of push ups.
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Postby zipwolf » Sun Jan 22, 2006 12:33 pm

[quote="scramasax57"]even the heaviest guitar strings don't require the majority of your bodyweight to play them, so the pressure isn't even close to the pressure of push ups.[/quote

Thats a very good point. Unless you are playing some MASSIVE guitar.
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Postby scramasax57 » Sun Jan 22, 2006 2:38 pm

hahahaha. it would have to be pretty big. but imagine how loud you could play!
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