Religious Qi Gong / Qi Gong and Mysticism

[Sorcerer]

I want to know more about Qi Gong and mysticism. I define mysticism as delving into oceanic, strange, beautiful and amazing states of consciousness. I spoke to my Qi Gong teacher about this and her basic response was that I should be practicing simple sitting meditation. Qi gong, she said, is nothing but an exercise for health. This stands in contrast to what Dr Yang writes about. What do you guys have to say about this?

[joeblast]

Well, it shouldnt be about states of consciousness - amazing though they may be, its just scenery. It is of course good to get confirmatory experiences but they should not be something you look for, because at some stage of the game it will wind up limiting you. It is really about cultivating yourself, cultivating mindfulness, heartfulness - "Buddha is as Buddha does," pretty much. The ego should be attenuated so that wisdom is developed, it is a necessary component for internal power, for "with great power comes great responsibility."

What I think would be a good descriptor...I read on zerohedge a while back, I dont recall who wrote it, I liked it enough to swipe it as my signature:
"Even in mildly complex systems, any outcome is the wrong thing to target, with the process being where the focus should be." (Which you can see by all the financial problems in the world today, central banks and governments are increasingly focused on the outcome, at the explicit expense of the fundamentals! Which means it is only a matter of time before bad things happen when one ignores the fundamentals.)

To apply that to qigong and meditation, it is the fundamentals you should be cultivating. Moving qigong to develop a strong vehicle that can withstand long periods of meditation; a calm mind that can harvest the cultivated energy.

Or as was written in taoist yoga,
"The cultivation of immortality does not go beyond spirit and vitality."

Another analogy,
"Before enlightenment, carry water, chop wood; after enlightenment, carry water, chop wood."

The fundamentals you practice today will also be the fundamentals you practice when the light shines through.

So to sum up your teacher's advice,

Dont use meditation to become a bliss junkie. There is so much more than states of bliss, if you chase bliss then that is its own dead end of a rabbit hole one can enter.

[Sorcerer]

Good reply, thanks for this. It reminds me why I come to this forum. But, my teacher seemed to say something more along the lines: qi gong is just for health. I will not stop looking for oceanic states at the momet because that is what inspired me in my practice. I guess oceanic is an empty word I use to decribe the slef ahead of myself - something I will keep chasing without being lost in a hole. But, most people seem to want nothing but health form Qi Gong. It is always ¨advertised¨ as a health practice . . .

I guess there are so many different opinion o Qi Gong in the west, everyone says something else. I cited some of Yangs ideas to my teacher but her response to what I said was completely different...

Conclusion: there is alot to learn. Thanks for the reply, I will think on it.

[joeblast]

Well in a sense it is "just for health," but health is also a prerequisite for optimal spiritual progress. So we wind up with some blurrings of verbiage here. I usually interpret "qigong" as those awareness exercises that generate physical health, be they static or moving, although I suppose you can include MCO for example in such contexts if we're to translate literally "energy work." Dont get too mired in defining these things overly explicitly, you realize its a waste of time after a while worrying about the orientation of the finger pointing at the moon instead of just looking at the moon!

I would say do not look specifically for those "oceanic states" - one thing I learned while in deep meditation was that your awareness needs to be focused on that which is producing the phenomena, and not the phenomena themselves - because deeply enough if you start concentrating on the phenomena and not that which is producing them, then bye bye phenomena once their inertia lessens and drops below whatever threshold it is where such phenomena become manifest It is the proper execution of fundamentals that produces the phenomena, and once you sort of build an energetic amplitude for them, if you stop worrying about the process and worry about the outcome, then you basically start deviating from the process.

You know how to get there - excellent - now "get there, without getting there" Leveraging the fundamentals to get yourself there and letting them arise without searching, grasping, having attachment to the state is what will let them manifest more often, for longer, and will help you get beyond them and continue your journey of discovering the nature of awareness.

[yeniseri]

SInce 'religion" has been considered reactionary on the Mainland since the 1940's, at best, and that qigong, as a naming convention came about around the same time period, what is termed religious qigong is an oxymoron. The previous appellations regarding Daoist, Buddhist, specific branch of X, etc are more outwardly culturally based with the religious taking a more personal bent within one's personal space (home, group gathering away from zealous Public Security Bureau undercover personnel, etc).
The Mystical componenet is kind of 'out of place' but I guess some consider this a good thing.

Just getting rid of "ignorance" and seeing reality as it is, is in itself, religious, as opposed self delusion and self congratulatory positioning