Sex and Qigong

[JeffK]

I read somewhere that Dr. Yang says you shouldn't practice qigong 24 hours before or after having sex. If you followed this and you wanted to practice qigong everyday than you could never have sex. I'm guessing this sex restriction applies to more advanced qigong practices, but does this also apply to 8 brocades?

[joeblast]

As an absolute requirement, no. Be natural and dont overuse or abuse.

[Dvivid]

Think of it this way, if you're not a monk, you don't need to act like one.

Meaning, if you are practicing qigong just for your general health, and you are young and healthy, then this is a non-issue. Men lose hormones during sex. As you age, and your hormone levels decrease, then you want to conserve your 'essence' and have less sex.

Your hormone levels pertain to the amount of energy you can manifest.

If your qigong practice is for more serious cultivation, then yes, you need to abstain, or learn the 'highest yoga tantra' methods of converting sexual activity for your benefit. Google it.

If you search this forum for this topic of sex and qigong, you'll find dozens of threads on it.

[Amaranth]

There is a method I tried successfully to extract vital energy from sperm by focusing attention on genitals and once you feel the energy go to you spine - bring it around much as in the micro-cosmic orbit meditation. When it goes past the mouth - some claim a taste like coconut milk... but I can tell you from my own experience: the taste is that of sperm. - anyway... sex after doing this will be much less tasking on you, and the energy rush you get when the 'vital essence' makes it around is highly intense - feel like you can handle ten women at once.

[tman108]

A quick question for you guys. I've been a moderate practitioner of Qi Gong for many years. I've probably read just about all there is to read on transforming Jing to Qi and Qi to Shen etc...

My question is this. Is there anyone on this forum - who isn't elderly - who has managed to completely stop ejaculating via their cultivation and practice? Is it a practical reality that some of you are experiencing? I am around 40 and I still max out after about 2 weeks. If I haven't had sex I will still lose it during my sleep and dreaming. I realize I still haven't eliminated all desires. I'm guessing there are very few who have. But I am curious. Has anyone managed this and if so, are there any negatives to completely stopping the ejaculation?

Thanks for your responses.

[wpgtaiji]

A quick question for you guys. I've been a moderate practitioner of Qi Gong for many years. I've probably read just about all there is to read on transforming Jing to Qi and Qi to Shen etc...

Did you get the "jing to qi and qi to shen" from a book or video? Is it correct the way you understand it?

I ask because I learned it the other way. Jing is the USEABLE form of Qi. Qi is electricity, but in order for it to do actual work, it must be condensed into Jing. Since i havent read "all there is to read" on the subject, I wonder where you got your info from? Thanks

[joeblast]

The 3 treasures intermingle as one; however, the 'focus of cultivation' is dispersed and cannot be fully focused when the generative force is not full - it only transforms straight to vitality after such time, and only after vitality is full does the process transform 'straight to shen.' This is well detailed in taoist yoga, if you understand well enough to reach the conclusion. Each 100 days imbues a certain score back to the filling of the generative force, repeat until full. Jing basically is vitality. A certain amount of the qi will be used to replenish vitality, but being that we are reproductive beings, the generative force will be taken care of (consume the qi) before the vitality.

In TY there is an exercise given to do before bedtime to alleviate dream emission - the flying crane. Contract the buttocks but not the anus, as you raise your arms as the crane spreads its wings, lift onto the balls of the feet, flow smoothly with the qi.

If you are seriously trying to conserve then correct thought is imperative - no lustful thoughts. The root is mind, when the mind moves in that direction, the flesh responds accordingly. Same as with thought in meditation, leave the front door open, leave the back door open, but do not invite them to stay for tea! The brain evolves its neural network upon patterns of habit and experience. Furtherance of anything will contribute to the inertia of such. Therefore be sure to further that which you wish to propagate, attenuate and remove that which you do not wish to propagate.

Stillness in meditation is also imperative. Only when the breath has dropped below the threshold of turbulence, the heart is settled and still, the awareness fixed at the seat in the midbrain, when everything else has dropped away, will you really start to integrate the energies - that goes for any energetic practice, the stillness is the yin balance to the yang active energy practice.

The only negatives are reflected manifestations of yourself. If you can overcome and put the energy pressure to good use, cultivate awareness at all times, then you can really start making use of the fuel.

That said, my skull is thick, I have a beautiful wife, I still have not even attempted to reach 100 yet

[wpgtaiji]

joe, that is deep!

[tman108]

Hey Joe,

Thanks for your candid reply. It's probably just a non issue for me as well (no pun intended) . I also have a gorgeous wife and am just attempting to adapt to my own life situation while keeping my cultivation a top priority. I believe it is true that over time, it is just a question of literally transforming beyond the individual body/mind into a more spiritual existence and things will work themselves out naturally as cultivation continues.

WPGtaiji,

Most of the Taoist methods of cultivation describe achieving "immortality" as the highest goal that exists. In pursuit of that goal, most instructions describe the process of transforming jing to qi and qi to shen. When we achieve states of more refined shen physical desires begin to drop. Desires period begin to drop. This is the equivalent of Enlightenment, Self Realization etc. It is interesting that Taoism portrays the need to transform the ingredients into an elixir that becomes the "Golden Embryo" or immortal body, whereas other traditions posit that our divine nature is all that really exists (at all times) and everything else is the illusion. In Advaita Vedanta for instance, there is no idea of anything to transform or create; only the disentangling of the mind from its illusory bonds.

[caesar]

Hi tman108!

I realize I still haven't eliminated all desires.

Just a quick question from me...is eleminating all desires your desire? And if it is...why?

[joeblast]

Hey Joe,

Thanks for your candid reply. It's probably just a non issue for me as well (no pun intended) . I also have a gorgeous wife and am just attempting to adapt to my own life situation while keeping my cultivation a top priority. I believe it is true that over time, it is just a question of literally transforming beyond the individual body/mind into a more spiritual existence and things will work themselves out naturally as cultivation continues.

/\

True they may work themselves out, but really it is by our individual, actuated, willful intent through which we create and shape conditions so that the probability of certain events has the potential to congeal into reality! Reality has a quantum mechanical nature to it, so really a lot of things boil down to probabilities, and that's what we are able to affect by our actions, that is why "nothing is ever certain" to manifest.

[Josh Young]

I ask because I learned it the other way. Jing is the USEABLE form of Qi. Qi is electricity, but in order for it to do actual work, it must be condensed into Jing. Since i havent read "all there is to read" on the subject, I wonder where you got your info from? Thanks

Qi is not electricity (in my opinion)which can be easily detected via scientific instruments, qi however cannot be detected and so is not electricity. The body does have electrical properties, no doubts there, but the idea that qi is electricity (not saying this is your idea, it is a common misconception) is theoretical at best and there is no evidence for it, but much against it.

There is evidence that qi and bioelectricity relate to and affect one another, but not evidence that they are the same. If qi was bioelectricity it would be very easy to prove scientifically that it exists and it would be very widely accepted in the scientific community.

The idea that jing is the usable form of qi seems at odds with most teachings of the three treasures of Jing, Shen and Qi, is there more to this? I think that the statement is just too simple for me to understand and that what you are relating is not incorrect, but it would be nice to have it clarified. Were did you learn this? Got a link?

[tman108]

Hey Ceasar,

Good one... you got me No it's not really my desire to be rid of desires. There is just this play of energies going on. Through a certain filter it looks like a body with desires, desiring to have no desires... but I know that's not really the case. The reality is just layers of being, witnessing, pretending to change and the absolute reality behind it all. I'm just pretending to banter on forums for no particular reason

[caesar]

Hey Ceasar,

Good one... you got me No it's not really my desire to be rid of desires. There is just this play of energies going on. Through a certain filter it looks like a body with desires, desiring to have no desires... but I know that's not really the case. The reality is just layers of being, witnessing, pretending to change and the absolute reality behind it all. I'm just pretending to banter on forums for no particular reason

Hehe alright! I get this "play of energies" well. I was actually only curious 'cause I've been following a debate on the same subject within a "yoga/meditation" community.

They don't like me wanking.

[wpgtaiji]

WPGtaiji,

Most of the Taoist methods of cultivation describe achieving "immortality" as the highest goal that exists. In pursuit of that goal, most instructions describe the process of transforming jing to qi and qi to shen. When we achieve states of more refined shen physical desires begin to drop. Desires period begin to drop. This is the equivalent of Enlightenment, Self Realization etc. It is interesting that Taoism portrays the need to transform the ingredients into an elixir that becomes the "Golden Embryo" or immortal body, whereas other traditions posit that our divine nature is all that really exists (at all times) and everything else is the illusion. In Advaita Vedanta for instance, there is no idea of anything to transform or create; only the disentangling of the mind from its illusory bonds.

mate, I am rusty on my "immortality" stuff! And my Dr Yang books are in storage, so that is why I asked (and i really dont have 12 hours to watch the qigong dvds ). The reason I ignored this stuff is that it all sounds like something designed to get as much money out of people as you can get. WHAT??? Yep. All this mental channeling of qi nonsense is very easy to drag out. "teacher, why dont i feel the qi?" "because you are not pure enough yet. Continue to pay me 1000 dollars per month and it will come in 10 years".

The issue I have always seen with these sorts of methods (using the mind to direct qi and transform, etc), is that you are using the mind! The mind creates whatever it wants. Pretend you are moving qi and guess what? You get "feelings" of that sort of thing. I had a chat one time with a bloke who claimed that when he was doing his taiji, the qi flow was GREAT! I said really. How do you know? Because i feel it! - its a safe answer because how does one disprove what another feels, right? Well, as I learned things, the qi flow is blocked by certain specific things that are easily observable to anyone looking. The joker was doing all of them, so what was he really feeling? It was in his imagination!

my point is, if its for monks, leave it for monks! your wife needs you mate! LOL

[joeblast]

wpg, I think you have spent too much time on bullshido, my friend If it "takes 10 years" it is because it is not easy to build the foundation, keep the center, cultivate it well - and not lose your progress along the way! I've been at meditation almost ten years - there is absolutely nothing ambiguous about having my metabolism spark up and go wild every time my practice gets to a depth where I am consistently hitting 50-60 second breaths, where the qi radiates beyond my perception, there is no air turbulence in my breath, just the abdominal movement and fixed awareness at the upper dantien. Things happen when you get the fundamentals down right and are diligent in practice. (I've gone in and out of the practice a good 6 or 8 times over this time period and every time I reach certain benchmarks, the correlating phenomena are there - my wife doesnt see my abdomen move when I am in meditation sufficiently deep, and the smooth streamlined movement translates over to my sleep also - so how subjective is that? )

Not all teachers are unscrupulous charlatans that would rip off those whom they purport to help.

[wpgtaiji]

joe, i was joking about that part. And i am glad you are meditating like a pro (see the built in flaw with taoism and martial arts?? THERE IS NO COMPETITION! Not even in "I am doing it wonderfully well!! - and that isnt meant to you joe! it is a comment on so called taoists trying to prove they are better (ps i am NOT a taoist!! ))

And mate, most qigong teachers are indeed charlatans. They ignore the foundations and teach the "popular", ignoring the good stuff. Dr Yang's methods are solid, especially if you have the guidance of a teacher who can clarify the path for you. Most though, go it alone, and end up with a fool for a teacher. Piecing together methods isnt a solid way to go about qigong either.

I also tend to do methods where mind manipulation is kept to a minimum. Why? So we dont focus on these "big feelings"!!

And it is important to understand that physical signs are NOT an indication of something good happening. A doctor friend and I and a few others took a look at a video that was forwarded to him by someone claiming that the way the school taught Bow stance was doing some magical things to the body. Knowing this isnt true (yes, it works the body, but magical.. no) we watched the video with a fine tooth comb. Then we duplicated his results! Turns out that his body position was totally incorrect, and he was actually blocking an artery the way he was standing, which made him feel "good", but was actually causing damage.

Understand that I am not making any statement to your experiences Joe! I am just leary of people's claims when it comes to meditation doing such and such "because it happens to me". The very best methodology i have come across in describing qigong is (in english), "Muscle, blood, qi" SO many jump to QI, thinking they are getting somewhere. The top notch internal artists i have come across tend to do things this way. Without a healthy muscle structure and internal structure, the hope of working with qi is zero.

what is bullshido?

[caesar]

A little out of topic but...

I also tend to do methods where mind manipulation is kept to a minimum. Why? So we dont focus on these "big feelings"!!

From my own experience...this is something I can agree to...let all kinds of feelings just pass by, notice them (might enjoy them), but don't make a fuzz about them...