The diaphragm in reverse breathing

[ricemaster]

I have been practicing Embryonic Breathing according to the instructions given in "Qigong Meditation: Embryonic Breathing".

I am confused about the movement of the diaphragm in reverse breathing/embryonic breathing.

When breathing in, as the lower belly and lower back move towards each other and the the perineum goes up, should the diaphragm go up (relsease/dome), down (contract/flatten), or not move at all ?

When breathing out, as the lower belly and lower back release (move away from each other) and the perineum releases down, should the diaphragm go (relsease/dome), down (contract/flatten), or not move at all ?

I searched the book and online but could not find a definitive answer.

It makes sense to me for the diaphragm to move in embryonic breathing in the same way it moves in normal breathing, that is contract/flatten on the inhale. In this way the inhale will create compression on the lower dan tien from all directions. I have been practicing like that for a while.

However I want to get confirmation to this from Dr Yang or a senior teacher, or is there a written resource which describe this clearly ?

Thank you !

[joeblast]

If the diaphragm does not descend on the inhale, there is no upper thoracic mechanism by which the lugs can properly fill. therefore the diaphragm descends. plus, if it ascends, it undermines the compression about the dantien - it would be like squeezing a balloon, if you truly want to compress it must be compressed from all sides.

mastering the psoas muscle is very important to mastering reverse breathing. I daresay if you dont understand the psoas connection you wont be able to do reverse very effectively. all breath motions should begin with the slight descent of the psoas/lower diaphragm overlap with the diaphragm descending on the inhale - it is the other parts that differ with regard to reverse breathing but the motion of the diaphragm itself is very similar between reverse and natural, any difference is mostly due to the different motions of constituent parts.

so to recap, on inhale:
diaphragm descends, abdomen contracts inward, perineum lifts, quadratus lumborum firms. (all yang motion)

on exhale:
all relax. (all yin motion)


ergo, all yang at once then all yin at once allows for higher amplitude energy potentials. natural breathing you find a good balance of yin and yang on both the inhale and exhale, making it a very balancing breath.

[joeblast]

confirmation from Dr Yang's material - Root of Chinese Qigong pg 130 under the Reverse section...

"The major problems are"

1) Tensing the chest - In the reverse training, when you inhale, the diaphragm moves down while the abdomen is withdrawing. The drawing in of the abdomen generates pressure upward, which makes it harder for the diaphragm to move down.

It seems that the problem arises because perhaps the focus is more on the abdomen withdrawing as opposed to having good focus on the very initial steps - try first focusing on your abdomen as you do a reverse breath - now try the focus on the psoas-diaphragm connection as you inhale - making that the more important portion sets up the breath more properly.

[Dragon_Gyatso]

Perhaps Im just slow..
For Taiji and Qigong purposes..
When you breath, do you focus only on the movement of the area below the navel?
Or does the area both above and below the navel expand and contract?

When I have practiced, I only move the lower abdomen.. well, I only focus on expanding or contracting..

Is this wrong?
Does the entire belly move?

I tried both ways..
And I manage to fill the lungs with greater ease just moving the lower abdomen or area below the navel.
I feel moving the entire belly doesnt allow you to breathe as deeply.. at least for me anyways..
Am I making sense?

I mean if the entire belly is supposed to move why do we place the hands on only the lower belly?

[joeblast]

Yes that makes sense - that says you have done the requisite work and know where to sink the breath

The front of the abdomen is less important - you can think of it as a sort of "martial modifier" of sorts - all dependent on what sort of manifestation you are intending. More fundamental is the Diaphragm-Psoas-Perineum dynamic. When doing a greater yin style meditative breath, the front of the abdomen is barely used, this is evidence of the statement right there. That's when "the breath externally disappears" because you are making most use of the fundamental 3 structures and limiting the use of other structures. If practicing martial arts then naturally there will be more of a focus on the front of the abdomen since the manifestation is of more yang intent. That doesnt diminish the fundamental nature of the d-p-p dynamic, it is just used to "modify the output."

[joeblast]

and speaking of 90 degree horse stance, need to be reverse breathing well for it, during it