Sleeping - Exhaling and Inhaling

[taichigirl]

I am curious if anyone knows Dr. Yang's opinion of whether sleeping on ones stomach or back can affect one's health adversely?

In Dr. Yang's DVD on Embryonic breathing, as well as some of his other DVDs, he talks about when you sleep, you naturally inhale longer than you exhale, and then your mind goes to the centre.

I have noticed that I enjoy sleeping on my stomach (as opposed to my side or back), and as a result, my natural breathing pattern when I sleep, is significantly different from when I sleep on my back or side. Before I fall asleep completely I can tell that my inhale is far more shallow due to the pressure on my chest, and my exhale is far deeper.

Apparently, it is during the day that we naturally exhale deeper and during the night we should be inhaling deeper. So... my question for the Forum Readers is... From a qigong or health persepective, and a "going to the centre line" perspective, is sleeping on one's stomach/chest counter-productive?

Perhaps of no significance to this question is that I already have a very slow pulse rate (sometimes less than 50 at night) and I naturally breathe abdominally very easily.

I will look forward to reading your comments.

[joeblast]

I sleep on my back, but that is out of necessity - back injury...when its bad I require stasis to sleep well I used to sleep on my stomach though, but these days it isnt good on the curvature of my back, I cant rely on the musculature to maintain that position without being aggravated by it.

I've heard plenty of theories supporting either position though.

[taichigirl]

Thanks for your reply joeblast.

In reviewing the DVD on Embryonic Breathing Dr. Yang talks about Guardian Qi and the immune system.

If I understand him correctly...Leading qi to the centre will shrink the guardian qi and weaken the immune system, which is why, he says, in the winter, one trains this by inhaling and exhaling the same amount of time, versus inhaling longer. Dr. Yang says this allows the body to remain stable. He says that if you exhale longer than inhale then the energy expands outward and one loses the connection to the centre. We need our guardian qi to strengthen our immune system so we can defend against the cold.

So... That is why I am a bit confused. I would like to know whether or not, when one is sleeping, and if one is exhaling longer than they inhale (due to sleeping on their stomach), will, then, the immune system be compromised? If one can manipulate one's energy through Embryonic breathing and training, then what happens when one is using one's natural breathing state and breathing out more than in while sleeping on the stomach for hours on end? Is my immune system deteriorating from this (bad habit) style of sleeping on the stomach?

[yeniseri]

Whatever position you are comfortable, that is the one you adopt!
That being said, I usually adopt sleeping on either left or right side depending on my state of ill health i.e coughing, lethargy, flu, headache, etc. A few days ago, I had slight nausea so I started to sleep on left side but the nause became more pronounced so I shifted to my right and I felt better.

One's state of health usually dictates how you sleep unless you ignore signs and symptoms. If you have a bad back then sleeping on one's stomach is an alternative or on one's side. Don't adopt a practice because someone says it is good or bad. Experiment and draw your own informed conclusions! Better yet, seek out the teacher and learn how to better your circumstance.

[taichigirl]

Thanks Yeniseri:
I appreciate your point of view. Comfort is one thing. However, that isn't always what is best for us, is it? For example... If I sit hunched over, that might be what is most comfortable, but, in the long run, that kind of posture is not what is best for my back or internal organs over the years.

I am seeking out others deep understanding of embryonic breathing to try to understand if there is any correlation... so... I guess I am, in your words, seeking out a teacher and in trying to do so, find some words of wisdom, here in this forum. All of us are experts at our own sleeping habits, but not all of us are experts in health or embryonic breathing.

Have you ever tried sleeping on your stomach, or just lying on it for any length of time, and seeing how it changes your breathing pattern? I am starting to think it may hamper the immune system.

[joeblast]

It depends where your back is bad - mine is bad at the lumbosacral junction, therefore sleeping on my stomach tends to increase extension of the area. Since I have 2/3rds of an L5S1 disc, the connective tissue gets irritated and hyperextension happens sooner than normal, so if I am laying on my stomach I need to put something under the superior/anterior aspect of my hips to help limit lumbosacral extension.

From an embryonic breathing point of view, I'll agree the stomach is the least desirable sleep option since it limits the anterior expansion of the abdomen. "Hampering" the immune system could possibly be a lesser downstream result, but there's more immediate results from a good breathing strategy, or lack thereof.

I'm still not entirely certain what you're looking for though, taichigirl Have you read dr yang's EB book?

[taichigirl]

Hi Joeblast.

No, I haven't read the book (yet). But I intend to shortly. It was only yesterday that I finished reviewing all the qigong dvds. That has taken many, many hours. Fascinating stuff. I intend to go back over all of them and study them in detail.

You ask... What am I looking for? As I have previous stated, I am just curious about whether or not I am hampering my immune system during my sleep by sleeping on my stomach. By breathing out more than breathing in (when I sleep on my stomach) I am mimicking, I think, the breathing pattern we do naturally doing the day - which is pushing my energy outwards. When we sleep, I have learned (from watching the DVD's), our energy is supposed to "go to the centre"... which is facilitated by breathing in longer than breathing out. Perhaps I have been looking for someone to say... "Yes, you are right taichigirl... don't sleep on your stomach as that hampers your immune system for the reasons you've described."

I guess I wanted feedback, which you have kindly provided. There is so much detail in Dr. Yang's DVDs that I am just trying to clarify one very small point that is important to me. Regardless, I am trying my best to stop that (bad) habit, as it is not good for one's back, which you know only too well.

[yeniseri]

taichigirl said

If I sit hunched over, that might be what is most comfortable, but, in the long run, that kind of posture is not what is best for my back or internal organs over the years.

and that is a great point! Through my neglect I forgot to mention that cultural norms also influence what you describe.
How so! In my youth my parents always told us chirren to stand straight, sit straight, look up, etc as a way of keeping and developing postural integrity.

[Dvivid]

Your body will naturally adjust your breathing as needed, despite laying on the front of your body while sleeping.

If thats how you're comfortable, its probably fine.

Energy still goes to the center whenever sleeping, no matter the posture.

My new fun game is staying semi-conscious while that happens as I fall asleep...like a slow fade into lucid dreaming and then finally deep sleep.

I do remember reading about a specific Daoist sleeping position, where you lay on the right side, head on the right arm, knees slightly bent. But, I say listen to your body when it needs to move, and be mindful when awake of healthy posture in general. Bedtime is a great time to stretch and relax the joints.

[joeblast]

the exhale, when sleeping, is simply a relaxation.

good stuff dvivid, I do that too...embryonic breathing is great for when you're going to sleep, I do it on my back.

[Zhou He]

Regarding EB, I have 2 question for everybody
1.
When lying on back and breath naturally, does anyone experience a state when your mind go blank and the qi in your dan tian go circularly strongly like a washing machine ?
I have been experiencing this quite frequently recently.

2.
I think a good way to test your EB is to sit legs crossed legged as ankles. If after 30 min your legs do not get numb your EB is good?

[joeblast]

circulation is a good thing, just be sure not to become attached to the phenomena

2 is an indirect correlation. you can be proficient with EB and still have your legs be all tight and 'not very open' in general with respect to channels. you can also have your legs be well open and in great and limber shape and not have good breathing. the lotus posture is much more rigorous in terms of needing the flexibility and having the channels be open enough...sit like that for 30 and your channels should be decently open to do that, EB definitely helps with it.

[Zhou He]

It's nice to hear from a colleague

2. as of today, I can sit song pan for 30 min without my inside leg getting numb. Outside leg still numb 90% of the time. What does this mean ?

3. Do you by any chance know the different effect of song pan dan pan and ankle crossed sitting? And leg on top / outside too?

I know tian di ren thingy and how traditionally male need to put right on top, but why ? Do the numb encourage grow or inhibit growth?

[joeblast]

do you sit always with the same leg outside? if so, switch it up regularly. always sitting in one manner will stretch different sides of the body differently.

that may take care of the numb leg, simply switching it up.

I'm unfamiliar with song pan dan pan - although I know what sung means

not sure what tian di ren means, I can only partially infer meaning there...

numbness results from lack of communication - nerve communication, or inadequate blood supply. a little bit would likely encourage growth that would alleviate the condition like a plant manually bent away from the sun growing back toward, but overdone, like anything, may cause harm.

[jimlong5000]

There's also the lying down in the lion posture as recommended by the Buddha. I start in that posture and, later in the morning, end up all over the place. Hehhe. If you sleep on the right side, I hear you put less stress on the heart.

The Toaist also has a similar position where you are lying on your right side. You left leg is bent on top with your foot resting on your right knee. Supposedly, this is the optimum position where your meridians are most open.

[yeniseri]

It's nice to hear from a colleague

2. as of today, I can sit song pan for 30 min without my inside leg getting numb. Outside leg still numb 90% of the time. What does this mean ?

3. Do you by any chance know the different effect of song pan dan pan and ankle crossed sitting? And leg on top / outside too?

I know tian di ren thingy and how traditionally male need to put right on top, but why ? Do the numb encourage grow or inhibit growth?

Experientally, I do not sense a difference. Objectively, there is no difference whether left over right or right over left, Or one leg on top and the other on the bottom. If one limb is numb then I switch to the opposite.

What is tian di ren therapy? I have never heard of it before.
Though I do tell students regarding hands on qihai/lower dantien that roght on top for males and females lft on top but I have not heard any 'odd' feedback when they do the opposite.

[Zhou He]

Thank you for the advice.
I spent a lot of time experiencing before answering your post.

Tian pan, ren pan, and di pan are other names of shuang pan, dan pan, and san pan. It's not a therapy, but i heard that different kinds of sitting have give to slightly different benefits.

I have not taught any body, so I don't know much. But for me, I feel that sitting shuang pan, which ever leg is outside / at the bottom receive a little bit more qi.

Perhaps, I will feel balance, once my Embryonic Breathing reaches a high level.


With shuang pan, I currently sit comfortably for about 1h, then stop when feel like stopping. I heard that advance practitioners feels little and can sit for days.


Men focus's lower than women, that has something to do with male reproductive organ is lower than female's.