qigong, can it help schizophrenia?

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qigong, can it help schizophrenia?

Postby Ed » Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:35 am

Hi, I know someone who has suffered from schizophrenia, amild version, no voices or hallucinations, just delusions.

Is it possible that qigong practice can help him?

iknow he had good results from standing like a tree, but then after a strong mystical experience he went delusional again..

Ihave someof Dr Yangs books but not the ones on small circulation...although he covers it in qigong for health and martial arts..could the small circulation help him?

Thanks in advance!!

Ed

UK
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Postby styrofoamdog » Tue Apr 29, 2008 1:43 pm

I can't think of another condition that would be worse to practice small circulation with, than schizophrenia, especially without a teacher. Small circulation can actually lead to mental illness if it is practiced incorrectly, and may worsen his condition. It's called "qigong psychosis", and practicing small circulation incorrectly is the classic cause of it.

Something like the Ba Duan Jin would be much more helpful, since it aims to circulate qi in a safe way that encourages good health.
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Postby Ed » Tue Apr 29, 2008 1:50 pm

StyrofoamDog, thankyoufor your reply!

so is it the case that he might build up to much chi? or just circulate it incorrectly/through the wrong path etc?

how about taiji quan, and also taiji quan chigong....i assume these are the same type of thing as badua jin, in that they do everything naturally without forcing..

also,sorry for all the ?s, but what if my friend was actually going through a kundalini experience...and subsequently found he had a strange reaction to a drink which closed all his chakra's...iguess it is still a bad idea lol...probablymore so...

Thanks mate, and sorry for my odd writing style lol

peace

Ed
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Postby joeblast » Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:36 pm

taijiquan should be fine.

Its more of a case of incorrect leading, although if sufficient qi is amassed, it could force push through places that might be detrimental. Its a tricky subject, I doubt any of us here have direct experience with it; few have. I would basically advise against any practices that work with qi in the head, especially anything third eye or crown related.

Kundalini is also a tricky term, as the ancient term is a far cry from what is modernly referred to as kundalini: qi in the spine is not it. Again, no direct experience here, but sources I've come across through my own searches that I deem credible.

Drink....what was he drinking...ayahuasca??? :lol: There's nothing that will likely 'close chakras'...

Its tough to understand the mind of someone that has schizophrenic symptoms...
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Postby Ed » Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:43 pm

Thanks Joeblast!

great he want to do taiji so......thanks...

talking of qi in the head, he did try water breath meditation which takes it down from the crown to perineumand not upwards, i remember him saying he felt more grounded and stuck to the ground lol!!

Ijust mentioned kundalini, because he used to feel a pressure moving up his spine at nighttime...as well as tremendous bliss occasionally.. thanks

no no, no ayahuasca lol, just a energy drink....he thought he had been poisoned because it changed his whole visual perception and made his arms move involuntarily etc messed himupfor quite a while!

you know he seems ok to me, just has these wild stories that noone believes haha....

many thanks, he will be pleased when i pass all this on..........->

peace

Ed
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Postby joeblast » Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:54 pm

In general, a downward flow isnt a bad thing. Always good for grounding - a grounded state is always a good place to leave off. It reminds me of an experience I had with these Christian healer ladies I met that were staying at the same place we were at a seminar I was at earlier in the year - one issue they had with their closing relaxation method was that it left them feeling very heady (I visualized Mr Mackie's balloon head :lol: ) and ungrounded - and a couple of us chuckled a bit at that and asked them to try the reverse - start the cooldown above the head and bring it to the feet, back to the earth, ground! (that was just about the last day we were there, so I didnt end up getting feedback on it from them...so that kinda reminds me, I need to give that lady a shout.)

Pressure moving up the spine and bliss isnt necessarily a bad thing at all, but I would suggest grounding practices afterwards if he experiences them again. Real kundalini is explosively powerful, as I understand. (=need a fully formed, fully compressed and full dantien before you can even begin to fathom...and even at that, if not treated with utmost care and masterful guidance, you can severely hurt yourself with it.)

dang...what drink was that? it must have contained some...L-arginine or something, it probably tripped up some wiring upstairs. he might want to stay away from that stuff if he had that sort of a reaction to it. (hell, we all would probably be best off staying away from that stuff...)
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Postby Ed » Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:59 pm

Joe, excellent ill let himknow he should continue that practice!! thanks buddy!

Well he had an explosive experience where he fell back and from his heart centre poured in golden light and filled up his whole body and formed a golden ring on his forehead (we couldn't see it lol)......he said everything looked new!

I think the drink was called Relentless.......we are in the UK so you might not have it over in the USA...just a high caffiene and guarana drink, makes hyou feel way overstimulated...

thanks dude

Ed
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Postby darth_freak » Wed Apr 30, 2008 4:54 am

he should try to find an very good acuponcter. Or some chinese medecine doctor. Or maybe some magnetism could help.
"Turn your butt!"
Master Yang.

Xavier
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Postby joeblast » Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:04 am

Keep in mind that this is just advice from some non-experts, dont take it as gospel :)

Darth has some good suggestions.

Schizophrenia is is a psychiatric diagnosis that describes a mental illness characterized by impairments in the perception or expression of reality - not something like dissociative identity disorder or multiple personality disorder. I did a little digging and found an interesting tidbit: Increased dopaminergic activity in the mesolimbic (meso means middle) pathway of the brain is a consistent finding. That's a key component of the brain where, so to speak 'reality' is processed (to vastly oversimplify...) That would make sense about the energy drink, then - high bursts of stimulants or dopamine may trigger symptoms in an already existing case, from what I understand. Also the basis for those studies we've seen linking weed to uncovering existing underlying schizophrenic symptoms.

Which makes me wonder, how does your friend react to boosted oxytocin (=the 'love/trust/bonding' chemical) levels? One book I read called 'Peace Between the Sheets' discouraged orgasm because of 1) the big blast of dopamine an orgasm triggers (and there was plenty of focus on the subsequent hormonal imbalances that subtly serve to drive couples apart, but that's a whole nother ball of wax) and 2) the closeness aspect of non orgasmic sex promoted higher oxytocin levels in their research. Not that I completely agree with that tactic....well, at least not solely that tactic as far as lovemaking goes...

Has your friend tried Samathameditation or a similar variant?
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Postby Ed » Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:14 pm

Darth, thankyou for the suggestions! he has tried accupunture before but said his legs feel dead and numb and extremeley uncomfortable when the needles go in, so he doesn't do it anymore...it's strange because the standing helped him so much it makes me wonder if he a chi imbalance with his legs.....
thanks!!

Joe,i really appreciate you taking the trouble to do this research, good on you man!!

yeah he used to smoke weed, hasn't for a long time though (number of years)...i think he had trouble with sex to be honest....he told me he abstained for 2-3 months prior to the golden light experience and felt amazing... i think maybe that is one of the keys to his problems!!

so are you saying non-orgasmic sex produces lots of oxytocin? interesting, not sure how i could get him to use that but maybe some way...

no i don'tthink he tried samatha meditation--actually after looking at the wiki link you gave (thanks) he may have,,, he usually does countinng breaths or just the breath with no counting....not sure if that is samatha though!

thanks everyone for the great replies,, much appreciated!

peace

Ed
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Postby joeblast » Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:53 pm

Well, my girl is in grad school for for mental health counseling, and she's always had a particular interest in schizophrenia...and I've always been fascinated with brain function, just so happened to have my copy of Zen & the Brain handy...so really, no biggie :) 2-3 minutes of digging, hehe

As far as the non-orgasmic sex...well, that was just a tidbit of reference. I think that positive, peaceful meditation is also another way to boost oxytocin levels, that's why I referenced the Samatha. Actually, I've had my best meditation results similar in technique to that using Dr Yang's embryonic breathing methods, only with a little more focus on longevity breathing instead of building qi. Anyway, my underlying point there was regulation. Regulation of the mind comes through regulation of the breath.
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Postby Ed » Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:59 pm

Hey thanks again,lucky your girlfriend is in med school lol....

i'll tell him toget the embyonic breathing book.....are you able to give a short decription of it, or is it against forum rules?

thanks Joe

Ed
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Postby joeblast » Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:37 pm

Nah, not med school...psychiatry :)

*thumbsup*
http://www.ymaa.com/publishing/books/qigong

*two thumbsup*
http://www.ymaa.com/forum/search.php

I'd write, but I've already written, little tired at the moment to make it quite coherent :)
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Postby monkeybrain » Fri May 02, 2008 10:09 am

, it is hard question who is healthy, in behaviour... I have watched in films and read, that some anchient masters were accepted sometimes as more as crazy... In this case minority will be accepted as crasy and myjotrity or strongest part of population as "healthy"... Some Qi Gong Masters can injure perhaps brain cells (so the person became "strange" or like making "zombi") if their vision of chi circulation and transformations are not enough deep... The main princip perhaps don't hurt other person, the words are only words!
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Postby Ed » Fri May 02, 2008 10:19 am

Monkeybrain--

thanks for your much appreciated input....i agree it is hard to define madness...i have seen a documentary which says mad people can sometimes be more evolved and see other dimensions etc..

I suppose the key is can they function in the reality they inhabit?

thanks monkey!

Ed
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Postby joeblast » Fri May 02, 2008 11:19 am

"It's such a fine line between stupid, and clever..."
:lol: gotta love spinal tap
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Postby Ed » Fri May 02, 2008 12:19 pm

:lol: 8) :shock:
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Postby yeniseri » Thu May 08, 2008 9:56 am

I would be hesitant to teach people with schizophrenia any qigong!
For relaxation purposes, baduanjin at its basic level can be a good tool to calm the person and increase their well being so at the somatic level (experience) of pain, tense, anxious etc, simple is better.

Qigong can induce mental images and experiences that can/may imbalance the person (they are already experiencing 'bad' mental trips) and increase their severity making it unbearable and dangerous!
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Postby sysop » Fri May 09, 2008 6:20 am

yeniseri wrote:I would be hesitant to teach people with schizophrenia any qigong!
For relaxation purposes, baduanjin at its basic level can be a good tool to calm the person and increase their well being so at the somatic level (experience) of pain, tense, anxious etc, simple is better.

Qigong can induce mental images and experiences that can/may imbalance the person (they are already experiencing 'bad' mental trips) and increase their severity making it unbearable and dangerous!



Incorrect performance of Qigong exercise can lead to some somatic or psychological disturbances...Such syndrome manifested during or after the Qigong exercise may be called "Qigong deviation," which has become a diagnostic term now widely used in China. It has also been included in the Chinese Classification of Mental Disorders (1989.) The mental disturbances initiated by Qigong exercise has aroused wide interests and discussion now among Chinese psychiatrists and Qigong researchers.

The common symptoms in [Qigong Deviation Syndrome] mental disturbance are anxiety, nervousness, depression, etc. Seriously ill patients cannot control their own behavior. Some patients are found to have hallucination or delusion, and some even have the impulse of committing suicide.
- Hong Kong J Psychiatry 2000;10(3):12-14


Seven trials were included. Most studies evaluated Chinese herbal medicine in combination with Western antipsychotic drugs; in these trials results tended to favour combination treatment compared with antipsychotic alone...

Results suggest that combining Chinese herbal medicine with antipsychotics is beneficial.
- The British Journal of Psychiatry (2007) 190: 379-384
Last edited by sysop on Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Ed » Fri May 09, 2008 7:19 am

Yeniseri, thankyou for your honest reply to my question!

can i ask what kind of mental images are produced by qigong?
thanks!

Sysop, thankyou also for your reply!

From what i've been told these symptoms are simply blockages ofenergy being cleared away, and are not permanent....but yes i agree they could be quite disturbing for someone allready mentally imbalanced..

herbal remedy are good he finds but at the same time they are quite expensive unfortunately..

thanks for your reply and research posting!!

8)

peace

~Ed
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