Extra benefits of small circulation?

[chimojo]

If one stands in zhan zhuang without focusing on any specific goal, doesn't the qi flow in the small circulation path naturally anyway?

[styrofoamdog]

Well, there is always some qi flowing in the vessels, or you wouldn't be alive. But if your question is whether you will achieve a strong small circulation flow (like in small circulation practice) by doing normal zhan zhuang, then that answer is more meaningful.

The answer is yes. I read an interview with a Baguazhang master (link below) who said that it typically takes three years for natural small circulation, and ten for large circulation. This is typical of what other masters say as well.

There is also a distinction between small circulation as practiced when it is forced open gradually, and small circulation that has opened naturally. When it is forced open, the flow is weak at first, compared to how it is when it opens naturally.

http://www.chinafrominside.com/ma/bagua/machuanxu.html

[lilman]

There's a book callled Empty Force by Paul Dong that says if you practice standing on stake with a clear calm mind with no particular focal point, just standing, for 3 years, 4 or 5 postures an hour each daily, (double time if you skip a day) you should be advanced enough to tap into the Empty Force (hitting without physical contact). So I guess it depends on the intensity of your training, the time frame, and how perservering you are with your practice.

[yeniseri]

There's a book callled Empty Force by Paul Dong that says if you practice standing on stake with a clear calm mind with no particular focal point, just standing, for 3 years, 4 or 5 postures an hour each daily, (double time if you skip a day) you should be advanced enough to tap into the Empty Force (hitting without physical contact). So I guess it depends on the intensity of your training, the time frame, and how perservering you are with your practice.

Standing only will not help to tap into "Empty Force".
You must train the various moving methodologies to assist because they never come just like that. Push hands encompassing
a. single PH
b. 2 hands PH
c. Moving PH
d. QInna
e. freestyle PH

[joeblast]

I'd also assume that you'd need practices that would fully form, fill, compress, fill, compress, fill...etc the dantien before being able to do something extraordinary like that...

[chimojo]

it typically takes three years for natural small circulation, and ten for large circulation. This is typical of what other masters say as well.

This is what I was getting at. Ok, let's say you can get it just by standing and doing basic regulation. How do you know you have completed the small/large circulation? What are the signs?

[lilman]

I agree yeniseri. I would suggest reading the book EMPTY FORCE by Paul Dong so you can get a better idea of what I mean.

As far as the signs you completed grand and small circulation... You dont really need signs... You will feel Small Circulation in from your nose, down through the conn with the tongue at the roof of your mouth, down your throat, to your middle dantian, to your lower dantian, up your hui yin, up the spine through the ming men, beteween the shoulders, to the jade palace, up to the top of the skull at the bai hui, down to the upperdantian, back down to your nose, and repeats.
Large circulation depends on how your training. If your training particularly for martial arts, the simplest way is when small cirulation hits your huiyin, it splits into 3 paths, 2 down your legs out your bubling well point, one up your spine to the point between your shoulder blades, and splits to 3 more paths, 2 paths out the the palms of both hands, and one continues small circulation up your neck and around your head. From my experience and understanding, its a lot faster to reach this goal by sitting meditation though.

[chimojo]

Thanks for the excellent description lilman. But since the small circ fire path is the natural flow, even if you didn't know about it then it would still occur. After all these flows occur in healthy people in general with or without qigong.
Also, if people study this flow too early (before they have build up qi), it seems this circulation would merely be imagined and possibly detrimental to progress. Is there an added benefit by concentrating on the flow? Has anyone had a leap forward by doing this vs. not doing it?

[lilman]

thanks. As we all know here chimojo, Yi leads the qi. I like how Dr. Yang suggests starting small circulation. He said you sit in wuji, until the dantian is full and starts to over flow to your huiyin. Then you lead the Qi up the tailbone to the ming men. Then to open the gates, you build Qi and lead it to the gate until the Qi overflows and opens the gate, then its on to the next until your governing and conception vessels are full. Also if your interested on reading into Qi channels opening by standing on stake, pls read EMPTY FORCE by Paul Dong. Not many people would practice his method, but its still usefull and the stories from the students give descriptions of thier progress.

[chimojo]

Thank you for sharing lilman, I will look into this.