8 Pieces Of Brocade

Discuss Qigong, its ideas, theories and practice. Please stay on topic.

Moderators: Dvivid, Inga, nyang

Postby joeblast » Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:12 am

I think the basic point with having the thumbs outward is that it opens the shoulderblades moreso than if the thumbs are in :)
joeblast
Forum DemiGod
 
Posts: 943
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2007 2:20 pm
Location: CT

Postby Dvivid » Sun Oct 12, 2008 7:24 am

With the thumbs in, your chest muscles tighten. With them out, they dont.

#5 is all about using the lungs (metal) to release the heart (fire)...

Your back muscles are stretched and the front of the body is completely relaxed.
"Avoid Prejudice, Be Objective in Your Judgement, Be Scientific, Be Logical and Make Sense, Do Not Ignore Prior Experience." - Dr. Yang

http://www.ymaa.com/publishing
Dvivid
Forum God
 
Posts: 1722
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 9:48 am
Location: Boston, MA

Postby darth_freak » Mon Oct 13, 2008 5:24 am

well, thing is the front is not completly relax.
When I turn, my hands act as a suport on my legs and thus the muscles which is between the chest and the armpit tightens...
I am supposed to get support from my hands, aren't I?
"Turn your butt!"
Master Yang.

Xavier
darth_freak
Forum ÜberGuru
 
Posts: 573
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2003 5:42 pm
Location: Paris, France

Postby Dvivid » Mon Oct 13, 2008 7:41 am

Xav, think of it this way: peng.

Its more about your torso than your arms. Make your back round like a turtle shell, and sink your chest slightly. Yes, you can lean on your arms somewhat, but they are really there so you can use your hands to push off the thighs for leverage to twist the body.

Focus on *trying* to relax your chest and arm muscles a bit more, and breath as deeply as you can into your relaxed lungs.

This posture gets your heart beating, especially if you're in a low stance, so you can effectively release excess energy from the heart and solar plexus.

Change your position slightly and try again...
"Avoid Prejudice, Be Objective in Your Judgement, Be Scientific, Be Logical and Make Sense, Do Not Ignore Prior Experience." - Dr. Yang

http://www.ymaa.com/publishing
Dvivid
Forum God
 
Posts: 1722
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 9:48 am
Location: Boston, MA

Postby darth_freak » Tue Oct 14, 2008 5:08 am

aright, I'll try that.
Thanks.

By the way, is there anyway you can do grand circulation during Ba Duan Jin or it couldn't fit? Maybe 2 or 4 gates breathing? Or BDJ is only for basic stuff..?
"Turn your butt!"
Master Yang.

Xavier
darth_freak
Forum ÜberGuru
 
Posts: 573
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2003 5:42 pm
Location: Paris, France

Postby Dvivid » Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:39 am

8 Brocades is considered "layperson qigong": no theory, just follow along and you get the benefits.

You COULD incorporate 4 gates breathing and such, but your intention would then be different so it would alter the affect of the exercise.

Yi Leads the Qi.

Better to keep them separate.
Last edited by Dvivid on Wed Oct 15, 2008 8:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Avoid Prejudice, Be Objective in Your Judgement, Be Scientific, Be Logical and Make Sense, Do Not Ignore Prior Experience." - Dr. Yang

http://www.ymaa.com/publishing
Dvivid
Forum God
 
Posts: 1722
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 9:48 am
Location: Boston, MA

Postby darth_freak » Wed Oct 15, 2008 4:29 am

yeah I thought so.
though can you do add a focus on on abdominal breathing?
Or should I just and simply do the move, breath with my lungs (what else, i know...) and don't think about stuff?
That may be the best

But I'm wondering if normal abdominal breathing can help to get the qi from the legs to the dan tian. I've noticed that since I started doing qigong everyday (at least 8 pieces of brocade everyday, 8 times each move and every other day after the pieces I do 30min of hard crane qigong and between 30 and 90min of crane soft qigong), I haven't had "nocturnal realease". I don't know if it's simply the fact of doing qigong or if trying to lead the qi from the legs and have it in the abdomen does the thing...
"Turn your butt!"
Master Yang.

Xavier
darth_freak
Forum ÜberGuru
 
Posts: 573
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2003 5:42 pm
Location: Paris, France

Postby Dvivid » Wed Oct 15, 2008 8:53 am

Too much information!

just kidding...

Yes, you should use abdominal breathing when you practice any qigong, if you know it.

No matter if NAB or RAB, when you move the huiyin (perenium) it will open the channels in the legs, and benefit that particular issue...
"Avoid Prejudice, Be Objective in Your Judgement, Be Scientific, Be Logical and Make Sense, Do Not Ignore Prior Experience." - Dr. Yang

http://www.ymaa.com/publishing
Dvivid
Forum God
 
Posts: 1722
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 9:48 am
Location: Boston, MA

Postby darth_freak » Thu Oct 16, 2008 6:54 am

alright. Thanks :)
twas such a pain for me that i'm quite happy that so far i'm good.
"Turn your butt!"
Master Yang.

Xavier
darth_freak
Forum ÜberGuru
 
Posts: 573
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2003 5:42 pm
Location: Paris, France

condense the spirit?

Postby nitsuj » Thu Nov 06, 2008 6:24 pm

instructions on the first of the standing set say to condense the spirit in the upper dan tian and to sink the qi to the lower dan tien. I am familiar with the location of the dan tiens, but HOW does one condense the spirit, and sink the Qi. Does this mean to focus your concentration on the upper dan tian and to sense the lower dan tien? clarification would be kindly appreciated.
nitsuj
Forum Addict
 
Posts: 61
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2006 1:05 am
Location: Santa Rosa, CA

Postby Dvivid » Mon Nov 10, 2008 10:04 am

This is how both the standing and sitting set start, and in fact how MOST qigong practices start.

To "condense the sprit" - calm your emotional mind, and use your Yi (wisdom mind) to focus your attention/intention completely. Join your focused mind with your breathing.

To "sink the Qi" - quiet and focus your mental activity so that your energy is not stuck in the head. slowly become mindful of your entire lower body, not only your lower dan tian.

Often, our body awareness stays in the head and lungs. The goal is instead total body awareness, with a slightly stronger focus along the centerline of the body; stretching from the upper dan tian to the lower, but not exclusive to those areas.

These abstract concepts are difficult to put into words, that's why they're not elaborated on more often! Its more about FEELING than THINKING.

Hope this helps,
Enjoy your practice,
David Silver
"Avoid Prejudice, Be Objective in Your Judgement, Be Scientific, Be Logical and Make Sense, Do Not Ignore Prior Experience." - Dr. Yang

http://www.ymaa.com/publishing
Dvivid
Forum God
 
Posts: 1722
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 9:48 am
Location: Boston, MA

Postby joeblast » Tue Nov 25, 2008 2:41 pm

smile, and dont furrow your brow. 'focusing concentration' doesnt necessarily entail any sort of physical strain. if you 'try to think' or 'focus really hard' you are probably only going to wind up with a headache :)
this has been said already, but here it is again in a different form: simply pay attention to the physical sensations of breath, that will do enough to 'occupy consciousness' so that you dont have (as many) extraneous thoughts popping up.
joeblast
Forum DemiGod
 
Posts: 943
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2007 2:20 pm
Location: CT

Postby lilman » Tue Mar 24, 2009 9:56 pm

My personal opinion, is its over complicating a simple qigong.

This is how we teach it.

Simply relaxe. Feel a alight stretch, keep shoulders down, breathe deep to the dantien, but most importantly, RELAXE!

1 reach for heaven, to adjust the tripple points. Fingers interlock and stretch towards heaven.

2 shoot the birds, to adjust the arms and shoulders. Same as Dr yangs looks. Just rslaze and keep shoulders down.

3 touch heaven and earth, to adjust stomache and spleen. Right palm faces up to heaven, left to earth, alight stretch, switch.

4 look at the heels, to heal internal injuri. Relaxe, do not turn hips, or body, head only. Look to the right and turn head as far back as possible. Try to look at left heel. Then left. Keep shoulders down.

5 shake head and tail, to get rid of heart fire. Lift left hand over head, lean to right as far as possible.

6 touch toes, to strengthen kidneys and waist. Lean forward as far as comfortable, do not bounce.

7 anger eyes and punch, to increase power. Stand in horse arms chambererd, slowly punch out with right arm, relaxed fist. Anger eyes, send all negative chi out of point between middle and pointer knuckles. Then do left.

8 lift the heels, to prevent all disease. Fiat goes on kidneys, head goes back, then bend back as far as comfortable, lift heels, hold.

All positions are held for 9 seconds. Do not focus on leading chi. From the lower dantien. The energy is there and knows where to go. Relaxation is the key. You will feel the chi moving. Breathing should be normal abdominal breathing. Any questions please let me know.
lilman
Forum Guru
 
Posts: 293
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:50 pm
Location: El Paso, Tx

Question

Postby Caerus » Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:14 pm

Hello everyone,

I'm new to Qigong and am starting off with the 8 Pieces of Brocade book and DVD but am confused on just the first sitting exercise Bi Mu Jing Zuo (Close eyes and sit still) because the book and video seem to contradict each other as to the order of the exercise.

In the 'Discussion' part of the book of the first exercise it says after you sit, place the tongue on the palate, place your hands together below the abdomen on the lap, and regulate your breathing so your mind can become clear and pure (concentrated), (all this I understand and have no problem with) that you must concentrate on your Middle Dan Tian to calm down the Post-birth fire Qi. When the fire is gone, place your concentrated mind on your Shen which will raise your energy level.

All that I understand, but this is where I'm confused. The instructions in the video are slightly different from the book. In the video it says after doing the prepartory positioning with hands, tongue on palate, breathing, etc. that you concentrate on the Shen first, particularly on the pituitary and pineal gland to calm the mind and build the Qi there. From there he says to pay attention to breathing (he's using his hand to bring it down from the Shen to the nose and mouth as to show he's using the Yi to move the Qi down), and then from there to slowly make your mind come down to reunite with your Lower Dan Tian and says you can keep it there for a long time for the meditation process.

So from this I'm confused as to which order and place the Qi is supposed to end up, the Middle to Upper Dan Tian as in the book or the Upper to Lower Dan Tian as in the video. If anyone can help me with this so I can get started with the Qigong practices as soon as possible I would greatly appreciate it.
Caerus
Just Arrived
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 3:39 pm
Location: CA, USA

Postby Dvivid » Fri Jun 19, 2009 6:17 pm

Hi

the book is much older than the DVD, and his teaching is clearer in the DVD.

Concentrate the mind in the center, unite the Shen with the breathing, and then lead the Qi downward, from the brain, along the centerline doen through the middle dan tian, to the lower dan tian.

Once you've gone through this process multiple times (weeks/months), and you clear bloackages and build a stronger mind/body connection and ability to 'lead' the Qi, then you ultimately simplify it:

Concentrate the mind, and immediately lead it to the lower dan tian.

Hope this helps,
David Silver
Director, 8 Brocades DVD
"Avoid Prejudice, Be Objective in Your Judgement, Be Scientific, Be Logical and Make Sense, Do Not Ignore Prior Experience." - Dr. Yang

http://www.ymaa.com/publishing
Dvivid
Forum God
 
Posts: 1722
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 9:48 am
Location: Boston, MA

Practicing twice per day

Postby kudzu28 » Tue Dec 08, 2009 4:45 pm

Hi to all,
If I do 8 repititions of the 8 Pieces of Brocade in the morning and 6 reps in the evening, is that just as beneficial as doing 14 reps all at once.

Thanks so much,
Holly
kudzu28
Forum User
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2009 6:09 pm
Location: Athens, TN

Postby joeblast » Mon Dec 14, 2009 10:55 am

caerus - check out the embryonic breathing book or dvd. these descriptions are fancy speak for "immersing yourself in your breath" or to "be the breath" in a manner of speaking. again just imparting superficial words onto experience, which is in truth beyond words; to see, to bleed - cannot be taught. so really what you're shooting for is to "regulate the breathing" until you can "regulate without regulating," or - simple focused exercise (in this case breathing) builds muscle memory. so build the muscle memory of proper breath (and proper sitting, proper standing...) and then you can reach a point where that "percentage of awareness" you have to spend is much less consumed by breath (and posture) - what that does is leave you with more awareness with which to focus on....your awareness ;) to access deeper levels, let the foreground fade away until the background becomes the foreground - there's the point where you begin to experience subtleties. (how can you access the background without it being ostensible noise unless you first calm the foreground? ;) )
anyway, this is related to "uniting the shen" with the breath, for really, once you've calmed the breath to the point where there's...simply...respiration, that is a gongfu that naturally leads towards uniting the shen with the breath. which, once you've established the practice and are regulating the breath without regulating, it is easy as...heh, turning one's hands over....just sitting down, calming, and uniting shen & breath :)

so by that rationale, holly - doing it twice a day will certainly have more benefit from the muscle memory aspect, but - certain exercises require certain repetitions in order to have a discernible or maximal effect. I'm honestly not qualified to accurately quantify the difference of the benefits of the two scenarios, but - how much extra time will it take for the extra few reps to just make it doing the full form twice a day? 8) I'll leave ya with this: you manifest what you train for. which reminds me of a quite yat chum put up a while back:
Keep your thoughts positive because your thoughts become your words. Keep your words positive because your words become your behaviours. Keep your behaviours positive because your behaviours become your habits. Keep your habits positive because your habits become your values. Keep your values positive because your values become your destiny.
-Ghandi

"Stay on target!"
-Red Leader

:lol:
joeblast
Forum DemiGod
 
Posts: 943
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2007 2:20 pm
Location: CT

Postby kudzu28 » Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:55 pm

Thanks, Joe. That makes a lot of sense. i will do the full form and stay on target!

Holly
kudzu28
Forum User
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2009 6:09 pm
Location: Athens, TN

Postby joeblast » Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:19 am

I never knew there were so many different styles of bdj 8)

this one was pretty interesting I saw today posted elsewhere:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0DLuiBBkNs
joeblast
Forum DemiGod
 
Posts: 943
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2007 2:20 pm
Location: CT

Previous

Return to Qigong / Chi Kung

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

cron
©2013 YMAA | About YMAA | Privacy Policy |Terms of Use | Permissions | Contact Us