Strange Qigong Experiences?

Discuss Qigong, its ideas, theories and practice. Please stay on topic.

Moderators: nyang, Dvivid, Inga

Strange Qigong Experiences?

Postby endarochford » Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:07 am

Its probably been mentioned in other forums before, but have any of you had any strange experiences while circulating Qi?
I've had "white outs" on occasion. As opposed to "black outs" where control is lost and you faint or collapse, I mean while excercising or in deep relaxation colour drains from my filed of vision. I dont loose control or anything and most times i find it quite calming. A state similar to deep meditation but I'm grasping at straws here. Anyone else experience this type of thing? Information appreciated. Its usually during the triple warmer exercises.
I've also felt what appeared to be large qi circultion during a modification of this excercise and wonder has anyone else felt similar flows and if its a bad idea doing what I did.
After a few minutes of "tree hugging", so to speak, my legs started to tremble. I decided to circulate the excess Qi by dropping my palms to just above my hips. It seemed to work after another minute or so and then I could feel a huge flow of qi from the floor up my legs and across my arms. As I started adjusting my posture listening to where the qi flow was the strongest I started to wave a bit. The experience was like a leaf cought in an updraft. I had to break from the posture at that stage. It was an amazing experience and have had little luck repeating it.
Again, I'd love feedback and I'd like to hear if anyone else has had any similar experiences.
This should be an interesting topic.
Every experience is unique
endarochford
Forum User
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 6:59 pm
Location: Dublin Ireland

Postby DOM » Thu Dec 08, 2005 12:02 pm

This is right from the eight pieces of brocade book By Dr.Yang.In most niegung training a student must learn directly from a master.If the practitioner tries to figure out by himself he may possable get lost.in some cases,he may even cause hi own death.Onother sentance states niegung training can be dangerous.inaccurate practice may cause crippling,paralasysis,or even death.This is just some of what it sayes I suggjest you also read the root of chineis chigung and his other books on the subject.
DOM
Forum ÜberGuru
 
Posts: 358
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:17 am
Location: NEW JERSEY

Postby jon2658 » Sat Dec 10, 2005 3:41 am

i dont think we need to be worrying about death just yet dom. it does not sound like our friend has progressed much beyond the superficial and p[relimary experiences in this exercise anyway. you can still do alot of chi-gung without an experienced practitioner, it just means that you advances will be limited (in the long term), not that you run risk of death, specifically because the student will not have learned how to dissolve and feel to a deep enough level to run the risk of this.

regardless endaroch, these white outs do not sound like a healthy experience. without knowing exactly what it is you are doing or how you are practicising, from my experience in this exercise it sounds like a couple of things could be amiss. i first started to wonder about your posture- incorrect posture e.g. placing too much weight over the front of the feet, not suspending the head correctly, or straightening the back properly can all lead to an upwards rise of energy to the head. these 'white-outs', from what you say, are all experiences that seem to register in your head- vision going white, feinting, etc- from that i would say that you are allowing too much energy to rise up to your head. this might be a result of other things also. you talk about energy coming up through your legs and how you have had little luck repeating it- to me that sounds like a quite frustrated comment from yourself. energy circulating through the legs is a normal experience, especially in the embrace the treee posture because it works directly with the macrocosmic orbit (as well as microcosmic), so it would be normal to experience energy circlating in the arms and legs. however, if you dwell on these experiences and start to crave them, or become dissappointed if you dont experience them again for a while, you run the risk of becoming addicted to the experience of these experiences- when you consider the basic principles of chi-gung- mind, breathing, posture, chi and spirit- chi is but one of these principles, a by product, so if you focus upon it too much then you do so at the expense of the other principles. moreover, the frustration you experience, again, is going to manifest itself in your head and might be cumulative to any energy that is lead there through poor posture. try not to 'clutch at straws' in your practice. focus on the 5 principles as dr yang suggests, with mind, breathing and posture being the most important of the 5, and accept chi as a by product of your training. after long enough practice you will begin to realise this and cease practicing chi gung purely for the sake of a chi experience. when you have let go of this mental necessity and engaged fully with the prinicples as a whole, then your experience of chi will be at its strongest and most free flowing. hope this is of help
jon2658
Forum User
 
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2005 10:15 am
Location: cardiff, uk

Strange Qigong Experiences?

Postby endarochford » Sat Dec 10, 2005 3:31 pm

Cheers for the replys lads.
I've re read my original post, and the way I rushed throught the mail, It sounds a lot worse than I intended.
That said I appreciate the replys. Strong points from both of you. I took up taichi/Qigong to help clear my mind and learn to relax. I do nowhere near as much of it as I would like to and realise that the only way to make any progress is to find a good class and then train and train and train. That said I hate to use the word train in relation to something I enjoy.
My level of progression is quite slow, as living where I do its impossible to find a decent instructer. So I'm guessing that the chances of me killing myself by redirecting my Qi are fairly slim. The point of the forum is sharing experiences. I was hoping to hear other peoples experiences to see other students side of the story.
Sorry about this I have a tendancy to go on about things.
I was just sharing an experience.
Any hoo...........
Every experience is unique
endarochford
Forum User
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 6:59 pm
Location: Dublin Ireland

Postby DOM » Sun Dec 11, 2005 7:04 am

fist of all these were not my words they were right from Dr.Yangs books.I keep bringing up this subject because there is alot of peaple who beleave chigung is 100% safe.When I bring this subject up no one wants to address it they would rather dissmiss it all together.I use to feel this way my self,I just could not beleave what I read.After a few years of training and other reaserch sources I am alittle more cautious.I do not know at what level it becomes dangerous nore do I know how to judge what level I or some one else is at.I beleave it would be when you start ciculating chi with your mind,small and grand circulation.I am in the prosses of rereading Dr.Yangs Chigung books and other soureses for more answers.I am assuming that it becomes more dangerous when you start to circulate chi in the wind and water path.I do not know these are the answers I am searching for.
DOM
Forum ÜberGuru
 
Posts: 358
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:17 am
Location: NEW JERSEY

Postby Hephaestus » Sun Dec 11, 2005 2:10 pm

While the white-outs are somewhat worrying, the other phenomenon you experienced is known generally as spontaneous movement, and is simply a by-product of the Qi circulation. To some, this happens often. To others, not at all. Try not to dwell on it too much, see it simply as a sign that you're doing something right, even if it doesn't happen again.

As for when qigong becomes dangerous, maybe I can put this issue to bed once and for all, so it doesn't come up <I>quite</I> so often. There is a roughly cut line where qigong practice becomes dangerous, and it is fairly simple.

Basic medical qigong was designed for the layperson, and thus is not dangerous.

Advanced qigong methods, such as Small Circulation (and all levels beyond it) are where a qualified instructor is really needed, because these involve using the Yi (intent) to lead the Qi from the Dan Tian to areas along the channels to open them for stronger circulation.

Medical qigong does not use Yi to lead the Qi from the Dan Tian. Medical qigong focuses on posture, movement, and breathing.

Some exercises, such as the Yi Jin Jing (Da Mo's Wai Dan) involve condensing the local Qi into the limbs through tensing of muscles. While this requires concentration, you are only condensing the Qi already located in those areas, not leading it from the Dan Tian (although this can change in the advanced practice of this exercise, which is not performed until Small and/or Grand Circulation are achieved).

The dangers involved in advanced Qigong are due in part to the fact that in leading the Qi from the Dan Tian to other major fields (huiyin, mingmen, baihui, etc. for small circulation) one runs the risk of the Qi flow getting "stuck", i.e., one cannot lead the Qi further along the channels. In this case an instructor is needed to help either to complete the circuit, or to return the Qi to the Dan Tian, or simply disperse it within or out of the body.

This is why it is important to learn basic qigong from reliable sources if you don't have a teacher. I once saw a Qigong "Workout" video made by an instructor with over 30 years of qigong experience. The video was catered to the layperson, and yet in several exercises, he mentioned leading the Qi up along the spine and toward the brain!

So, as a general rule, the line is drawn thusly: if you're actively leading the Qi through the channels, you're in a danger zone without a qualified teacher.
~H
Hephaestus
Forum Contributor
 
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2005 4:07 pm
Location: Burnaby, British Columbia, Canada

Postby Dvivid » Sun Dec 11, 2005 5:16 pm

I think the 'white-outs' he is referring to are not like you are all describing - like "fainting", or some other such "problem". In meditation it is very common once you are able to "sit well" for a period of time that you have this experience. It is not a negative thing - its a step in the right direction.

Trying to recreate the experience is exactly why is isn't happening again. It will happen again when you are truly 'emptied out', and you are experiencing true reality, without your concious mind 'grasping' at having a certain type of experience or other.

Spontaneous movement is normal and healthy. And we needn't discuss it and add a level of drama that only distracts the practioner. The Root of Qigong also says: "Don't pay attention to the scenery." This is a very serious part of Qigong and meditation!

We speak about these things because we feel it is a way to connect with others and gain some level of intimacy we're otherwise lacking. I want to assure you it is not necessary to discuss these random experiences that arise in meditation, and in fact it is detrimental to your practice.

ALSO
Again, another thread discussing the terrible dangers of meditation and qigong! Such drama!

Do you need a Qigong teacher every time you sleep?! You do small circulation every night while you sleep. It is natural.

Yes, its true you can fry your nerves if you HAVE A LOT OF QI, and force it through a channel that hasn't opened slowly and naturally.

SO:
Don't worry.
Don't "try" so hard.
And remember also, we are all here having these unusual, natural, and really interesting experiences, and are all wishing you well in your practice.
Last edited by Dvivid on Thu Jul 20, 2006 10:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Avoid Prejudice, Be Objective in Your Judgement, Be Scientific, Be Logical and Make Sense, Do Not Ignore Prior Experience." - Dr. Yang

http://www.ymaa.com/publishing
Dvivid
Forum God
 
Posts: 1736
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 9:48 am
Location: Boston, MA

Postby DOM » Sun Dec 11, 2005 9:23 pm

First of all I am not trying to create Drama,I am trying to disscuse proper and safe chigung training is this not a chigung forum?.You are right this is obviously not the right place to disscuse it.After this I will put this issue to bed once and for all and not disscuse these issues,that seem to be exstremly important to proper and safe chigung ,but only drama to others.If they are not important and can not happen then why are they mentioned in every chigung book I have read from Dr.Yang.These are very powerfull words and statments.If you do not want to take them seriously then don't.But let me ask you this,if they are not important and of no concern then why are they in every book.Is it for pure entertainment reasons,I doubt it!
DOM
Forum ÜberGuru
 
Posts: 358
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:17 am
Location: NEW JERSEY

Postby yat_chum » Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:35 am

Hi DOM, I think its important that you keep sharing your thoughts, I personally have never taken them as being just scaremongering. I am relatively new to the whole qigong thing and value your input. Jo
yijing zhidong

use stillness to overcome movement
yat_chum
Forum God
 
Posts: 3176
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2004 7:18 am
Location: United Kingdom

Postby endarochford » Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:51 am

Dvivid was on the right track.
Again I must apologise for the original posts vagueness.
I'm sorry I referred to the situation as a whiteout now. It did have the appearance of a deep meditative state. I felt like I was withdrawing from the outside world. When I focused my mind and thought about the situation I came out of the state, but as I relaxed and sank into the posture again I reverted to the internal feeling again. Thats just the old rule number one for you, relax.
Every experience is unique
endarochford
Forum User
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 6:59 pm
Location: Dublin Ireland

Postby DOM » Wed Dec 14, 2005 9:07 am

Thanks Jo
DOM
Forum ÜberGuru
 
Posts: 358
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:17 am
Location: NEW JERSEY

lian gong (practice fundamentals)

Postby yeniseri » Mon Jul 17, 2006 4:52 pm

1. Were you practicing on an empty stomach?
2. Did you do through stages of training (progression) up to where you are now?
3. How do you end the routine? Do you shougong properly?

One needs to be alert during practice so discipline is important. All these things of non attention, lack of training, discipline will manifest if the 'proper' levels have not been mastered.
yeniseri
Forum ÜberGuru
 
Posts: 511
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2005 3:18 pm
Location: USA

Whiteouts

Postby dresperation » Sat Jul 29, 2006 6:02 pm

The white outs you are referreing to, I think, are mentioned in the 100 pehnomnina, that DR. Yang describes at the end of the ROOT OF CHINEESE QI GONG. He mentions seing the past present and future at the same time, and other things like, seeing all white etc.

I have little success with CHI GONG, but it's a slow process, but two nights ago, I saw the world with no coller for a second, and it seemed like a calm thing that was not bad.
dresperation
Forum User
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 5:20 pm

strange

Postby endarochford » Sun Jul 30, 2006 5:33 am

Its good to see responses to this posting so many months after I asked the question. Since From time to time I have managed to enter this altered state. I am drawn back into myself and my focus on the outside world fades. colour drops out of my vision and I notice the outline of what I'm looking at but detail is lost. I've began to enjoy it and once I enter the state it has become a medatative excercise. Looking back at some of the early replys Its kind of funny how "over the top" some people responded. That last reply about experiencing the movement of time, past and future etc is one of the best I've had. Some people can be quite negative. Energy movement is all about positive energy movement. Letting negative thoughts or negative idea's creep in while you are exercising would lead to negative results. Each persons experience is a personal one. Everyones mind is different shaped by your own experience in the same way that everyones body is different. We each follow a path, guided by experience and the experiences of others but the choices we make, steps we take, must be our own.
Every experience is unique
endarochford
Forum User
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 6:59 pm
Location: Dublin Ireland

Postby SunTzu » Wed Sep 06, 2006 6:55 pm

Couldn't it be that your experience was a side effect of clearing the mind, when the focus draws inwards to the breath. At such moment in my opinion you are not really looking at your surroundings as that will distract you from your practice ??

Just like when you change the focus on binoculars while you keep looking at the original picture when first looking through the binoculars.
SunTzu
Forum Specialist
 
Posts: 162
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:44 pm
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands

Postby Douglas Scott DuLac » Sun Jan 28, 2007 4:13 am

Endarochford

I've had a lot of interesting qi-gung side effects happen to me.

One that was most noticeble was when I was meditating on my third chakra I felt a hot pain in the middle of my forehead. This was about thirty-five minutes into the meditation. It fealt as if a bee stung me. It was cold and winter though- no heat in the house- this is Japan by the way. Notorious for cold houses. Anyway, after that I started to meditate again until the pain got too uncomfortable and I had to stop. About forty minutes... So, I went to the mirror to look at my forehead and I saw a perfect round spot, red, the size of a dime. It stayed there for about an hour and a half. Ever since then I have had 'ants' and the feeling of pressure in that spot. It hasn't turned red again , but sometimes it gets pretty strong. That is the pressure does. I've learned to spin it and it is starting to go down the nose and then gets lost around the upper lip. The feeling can be quite strong through the nose.
I've checked around and nobody could answer what had happened, but some of what Mantak Chia writes about eludes to the possibility that I activated the dan-tien. I believe that I could have been too hot -too yang, and too much pressure built up and didn't dislodge down the functioning channel. That's what I've concluded anyway.

I'm up for opinions...
The greatest manifestations of martial arts is the compassion, peace and health that merges from the training.
Douglas Scott DuLac
Forum Regular
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 4:30 am
Location: Japan

Postby Inga » Sun Jan 28, 2007 11:14 am

That is extraordinary. I wish I knew what happened to you, maybe someone will be able to offer some enlightenment. I can say on a mini scale I have had a relevant experience. I once took a course in meditative yoga, which focused on breathing techniques. Although we did not really work on moving our chi, it is something I am aware of from 10 years of shiatsu massage and exercises (and since then I have discovered qigong). At the end of each session, as we lay in corpse asana, the instructor would circulate the room and brush the the brow chakra of each participant. When she came to me, and one of my neighbours, there was a jolt, akin I would say to a static electricity shock, but there was no carpet in the room and she was barefoot. It was an odd sensation, which had no lasting effects like yours, but it was definately some kind of energy release or transfer. The instructor said this did not happen very often to her, she was excited but unable to really explain it to me. I had no negative side effects or problems which arose from it, but I will certainly never forget it.
Ancora Imparo
Inga
Admin
 
Posts: 517
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 9:55 am
Location: New England


Return to Qigong / Chi Kung

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 17 guests

cron