Nutrition & Pitchford's "Healing With Whole Foods&q

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Nutrition & Pitchford's "Healing With Whole Foods&q

Postby entheogens » Wed Nov 02, 2005 12:47 pm

Can someone recommend a good daoist/TCM diet book?

Please dont tell me Paul Pitchford's "Healing With Whole Foods". In a recent Qigong class, the instructor hailed that book and, well, that frightened me :). You see, in the early 90s I spent 6 months at Heartwood Institute where Pitchford lives and teaches. The man looks like he just got out of a concentration camp. I am not just speaking about him being thin, but he looks anemic and has that cloudy, dark shadow over his face...looks extremely unhealthy. If eating as he suggests is going to make me look like that, well, I'd probably be better off eating at McDonald's.

Anyway, suggestions for other diet books would be greatly appreciated.
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Dao Nourishment resources

Postby abersold » Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:14 pm

Dr. Henry Lu has written in this called Food cures, The Tao of balanced diet from stephen chang is decent and the tao of healthy eating by bob flaws.

Michio Kushi has books most likely on this maybe has a japanese flavor to it, macrobiotics etc..
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macrobiotics

Postby entheogens » Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:41 pm

Thanks for the suggestions but why on earth would you suggest Michio Kushi? I did not know that anyone even did macrobiotics anymore.

In my younger years I made the youthful error of doing macrobiotics...I even tried it twice. Once, I did the Kushi style macrobiotics, even went to Boston to do a workshop. I became sickly thin and unhealthy. The other time I tried it was while going to universtiy in France. There I studied under a couple of Osawa's students like Rene Levy. Again, a bad idea.

Of all the people I have known to do macrobiotics in the US, France and Italy, I cant think of one instance in which it had a favorable impact on the person. Macrobiotics is really bad stuff IMHO. You want to turn green or anemic, concentration-camp thin, lose your sex drive....go do macrobiotics.
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Postby scramasax57 » Wed Nov 02, 2005 8:36 pm

my cousin was a macrobiotic cook for a time. he was ok, but he stopped following macrobiotics after a while saying it was unhealthy. maybe not so terrible as you say, but still unhealthy.
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Postby snake » Thu Nov 03, 2005 12:41 pm

Kushi's wife and daughter died of cancer .he has it too now
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More Macrobiotics

Postby entheogens » Thu Nov 03, 2005 1:14 pm

I am sorry to hear that Aveline Kushi and Mr. Kushi have cancer. However, if this is true, it would not surprize me. Doesn't it seem ironical that the people who pushed this diet as THE anti-cancer cure would themselves get cancer? It is equally ironic that Ms. Ann Wigmore
who extolled the virtues of the Hippocrates Diet (complete raw food diet, no cooking, no fire) should die in a fire. Both cases seem like a cruel act of fate, like some kind of cosmic lesson about fanaticism, no?

I have never met Mr Yang but one reason his writing impresses me is that he emphasizes the need to be open-minded but scientific, respectful of tradition without mindlessly aping it. Kushi and all the other macrobiotic leaders I knew tried to legitimize macrobiotics on the basis of tradition. They argued this is the way ancients ate and so that is the way that we should eat. Of course scant evidence was given for this claim
and finally the unhealthiness of the diet was so apparent as to be not denied. Of course, there is the phenomenon of cognitive dissonacne---that people who believe in something based upon faith will only increase their fervor when proof to the contrary is shown. I have seen a lot of that.
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Postby snake » Thu Nov 03, 2005 1:50 pm

Good post Entheogen,

Also Mr Kushi opted for surgery rather than not but who can blame him faced with death.

I have a friend whom has moved away was into macro and was to be honest a mess.

I like the Dr mercola site which gives good advice.

I have tried lots of diets macrobiotics included and at the end of the day you have to find what suits you from experimenting and also that can change according to season age climate etc.but I made the mistake of letting forever thinking about food and it's effect on my body/mind /emotions take over and it took some time to get out of that mode of thinking.

yes I agree Dr Yang has a balanced view of things.
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Postby Dvivid » Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:07 pm

Hi. Fanaticism works both ways. Macrobiotics can and has worked very well for many people. Cancer is an insidious disease, and it can come from many angles: dietary, environmental, and genetic. Don't be so quick to judge the Kushi family and MacroBiotics in general. They may well have lived an extra decade or two despite their genetic predisposition to cancer, whatever the root of it may be.

http://www.macrobiotics.co.uk/letterfrommichio.htm

Modern Western science does not have the answers of perfect nutrition for human longevity anymore than the ancient Eastern traditions. We are still figuring it out.

We are all constantly bathed in an ever-increasing field of manmade elctromagnetic radiation, which may also play an important role in the advancement of cancer - no matter what you eat.

(Please don't say the word McDonald's again)
"Avoid Prejudice, Be Objective in Your Judgement, Be Scientific, Be Logical and Make Sense, Do Not Ignore Prior Experience." - Dr. Yang

http://www.ymaa.com/publishing
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Macrobiotics

Postby entheogens » Thu Nov 03, 2005 3:10 pm

<<Macrobiotics can and has worked very well for many people. >>

Personally I have not met one person who has benefitted from staying on a macrobiotic diet. At best, people learn some good things. And, as I mentioned before, I was at one time involved with macrobiotics both here in the US, as well as France, Italy and even Malta. Of course, my experience is not definitive but it does suggest that in general the diet does not work. However, let's assume for a moment that it does work for some subset of people. Ok, fine. But macrobiotics promotes itself as being THE diet for everybody. People who get cancer and are not healed by macrobiotics are frequently told by macrobiotic experts that they are not practicing it correctly. In other words, the patient is to blame, not the diet. There is no way to escape this type of logic if you submit to it. <<If you do not heal by macrobiotics, it must be that you are doing something wrong>> That is the fanatical logic of the macrobiotic movement. Thank goodness fewer and fewer people now follow this diet.

<<Cancer is an insidious disease, and it can come from many angles: dietary, environmental, and genetic. Don't be so quick to judge the Kushi family and MacroBiotics in general. They may well have lived an extra decade or two despite their genetic predisposition to cancer, whatever the root of it may be. >>

Agreed that cancer can come from many different angles. However, it was the Kushi's that have always argued that the macrobiotic diet could prevent cancer. Now Aveline, Michio and one of their daughters has died from cancer. What else has to happen to prove that macrobiotics is NOT an effective way of preventing cancer?

Anyway, my judgement of macrobiotics happened a long time before I learned of the above tragedies afflicting the Kushi family. In my experience macrobiotic people tend to be anemic-looking, ghastly thin, low-energy, have low libido, etc. I would not wish macrobiotics on my worst enemy.
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Postby abersold » Fri Nov 04, 2005 4:21 pm

I know many people who live this lifestyle are very successful, I used it myself for 4 years in my teens and self healed along with my energetic practices. Not everything is for everyone, I share with what I know from expierence...I could easily clam up and not post anything then what be the purpose of a forum, noo hard feelings~ good look to you.
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Postby abersold » Fri Nov 04, 2005 4:25 pm

I know many people who live this lifestyle are very successful, I used it myself for 4 years in my teens and self healed along with my energetic practices. Not everything is for everyone, I share with what I know from expierence...I could easily clam up and not post anything then what be the purpose of a forum, noo hard feelings~ good look to you.
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Postby TonyM. » Sat Nov 05, 2005 11:44 am

Look for a book online called "Electrical Nutrition".
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Perception on Nutrition

Postby James_Grinter » Fri Dec 16, 2005 9:24 pm

The debate on macrobiotics that has ensued is a contentious issue. I know not much of it, like anything there are cases for and against. Personally, I usually allow myself a substantial break in the mornings before breakfast, and moreso after dinner prior to sleeping, I eat smaller amounts more often, but ensure there is time when I am not digesting anything. I love whole foods, especially raw, but not always. I believe mock meat to be delicious, there are many beautiful staples around, and an abundance of beautiful fruits and vegetables where I live, I will be a vegetarian soon. Anyhow, I am intrigued by this electronic approach to food.

Recently I was shown a website for Kirlian Photography. Knowledge of it has greatly enhanced my appreciation of the energy of food.

Kirlian photography injects an artificial high-voltage electric field into its subject and captures the effects of that energy on the surrounding air (ionisation) as it leaves the subject, and thus provides us with a new manner of distinguishing our food, invisible to our eyes alone.

We should not sensationalise the findings as has been done before. Kirlian photography captures the light coming out of the food, not the emissions from a source within the subject. However, it does open a unique realm of perception to be mindful of.
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