Yang, Jwing Ming & Yang Family

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Yang, Jwing Ming & Yang Family

Postby Greg Jah » Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:21 pm

Hi everyone,

I am curious about the differences in emphasis between the Yang Family style of Tai Chi & YMAA style, specifically related to the traditional/ long forms (108 & 103)?

Does anyone care to comment on the perceived similarities/ differences between these two styles? I am relatively new to Tai Chi, am learning this form (YMAA version) and just trying to get a sense of the ways in which this form is similar and/ or different. I have done some youtubing and haven't been able to get a good sense of what is unique to the form, and what is unique to the practitioner.

Best,

Greg
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Re: Yang, Jwing Ming & Yang Family

Postby chh » Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:00 pm

I can think of some differences I've noticed- sorry if these aren't the kinds of things you were wondering about.

It seems to me that in Yang Family Style people tend to shift their weight back before pivoting on the front foot before a forward step. The support I've heard for this is that pivoting on a foot that has your weight over it can put stress on the knee. In YMAA people keep their weight forward when pivoting on the front foot for a forward step. The explanation for this is that it keeps from interrupting the forward energy of a sequence of moves (and maybe that it takes less time?).

I think the idea of An (按) in YMAA is really emphasized as a downward, draining, depressing energy rather than an outward pushing energy. It's probable that I just don't understand enough about the Yang Family system (or YMAA...), but based on the way the form and applications look in what I've seen and experienced with other students, the move An in the Yang Family Style form looks like it's meant to be a push straight out or kind of up. This is one of the feelings that the application could have in the YMAA system too, but I think YMAA is different in that it really strongly associates a downward feeling to An both in the move that's called An, and in moves that are said to manifest that energy.

In addition to what I said about pivoting, I think there are other differences about stances, weight shifting, and stepping between the two systems, but I don't know enough to try and describe them.

It looks like the curriculums of the two systems have a lot in common, like you might expect, as do the structures of the forms.

I'd like to know what other people think about this, too!
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Re: Yang, Jwing Ming & Yang Family

Postby Monsoon » Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:11 pm

Just to weigh in on the pivot if I may! :D

If the weight is evenly distributed across the whole foot it would be dangerous, in my opinion, to attempt to turn the foot against the friction with the ground. The foot must either be heel lifted (for a ball turn) or - more commonly - toe lifted for a heel turn. This way, even though the entire weight is still on one foot the contact with the ground is significantly localised. It is this lessening of contact that facilitates a weighted turn.

Regarding lifting the toe or heel: neither of these need to be obvious. It may simply be the equivalent of unweighting the toe or heel completely. Then the foot would appear to turn flat against the floor, when in reality only one small part is in full contact.

Of course I could be talking out of my hindquarters (wouldn't be the first time, won't be the last!)
peace and harmony

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Re: Yang, Jwing Ming & Yang Family

Postby chh » Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:49 pm

monsoon,

That is an important detail and I didn't mention it - I'm pretty sure all that kind of pivoting is done on the heel in the YMAA system, and like you said it's not that the toes are pointed sky high, just that the whole foot isn't touching the ground, resisting the turn.
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Re: Yang, Jwing Ming & Yang Family

Postby Dvivid » Fri Feb 08, 2013 9:34 am

More information on the same topic here:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4735

To paraphrase, it includes these links:
Dr. Yang's Taijiquan lineage
http://www.ymaa.com/articles/taijiquan-master-gao-tao

http://ymaa-retreatcenter.org/news_even ... successful

This article answers the question in more detail:
http://ymaa.com/articles/ymaa-taijiquan-lineage

"No blood relation between Dr. Yang and the Yang-style Taiji family.

But, there is a direct link between the Yang family and the Taijiquan taught at YMAA schools, as explained in the article listed above.

Dr. Yang grew up in "Yang village" in Taiwan with hundreds of others with the last name Yang. It is a very common name.

In my opinion, Dr. Yang has probably done more to preserve the essence of the original Yang-style taijiquan than most, by translating and explaining the Yang-family poetry, most of which was written by Yang, Ban-Hou.":
http://ymaa.com/publishing/books/internal/tai_chi_secrets_yang_style
"Avoid Prejudice, Be Objective in Your Judgement, Be Scientific, Be Logical and Make Sense, Do Not Ignore Prior Experience." - Dr. Yang

http://www.ymaa.com/publishing
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Re: Yang, Jwing Ming & Yang Family

Postby Greg Jah » Sat Feb 09, 2013 2:04 pm

Thanks for the thoughtful replies. This was very helpful!

Best,

Greg
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Re: Yang, Jwing Ming & Yang Family

Postby Cezwad » Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:14 am

Thanks a lot for your answer Dvidvid and thanks Greg for asking... the lineage looks pretty clear. This may looks like a basic information but from my point of view it is good knowledge to have to know and explain more precisely the story of the style we practice. At least for me it was useful to remind this point!

Best regards,

César
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