Dr. Yang's opinion on body conditioning and Taijiquan

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Dr. Yang's opinion on body conditioning and Taijiquan

Postby fazhou » Wed Aug 15, 2012 12:28 am

Hello all. I was wondering if anyone who has had the opportunity to study with Dr. Yang has heard his opinion on the compatibility of body conditioning exercises and Tai Chi. As most of you are aware, there is a wide range of opinions concerning body conditioning in conjunction with TCC. Are the students in the 5 and 10 year study program learning both internal and external arts? And if so, do they do conditioning exercises along with TCC? I'm not so much interested in "weight lifting" but more along the lines of "bodyweight" exercises. Does ymaa consider these types of exercise to be antithetical to TCC? Thanks so much and as usual, any two cents will go in the piggy bank.
PS I know this topic has been kinda covered on the forum before, but I am interested about the students at the retreat center and how and what they are taught about the subject.
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Re: Dr. Yang's opinion on body conditioning and Taijiquan

Postby Dvivid » Wed Aug 15, 2012 12:24 pm

Dr. Yang and YMAA do not consider body conditioning to be antithetical to internal arts.

Traditionally, body conditioning was part of all beginning students' training, to develop their muscles, tendons, bones, and ligaments to withstand the emission of jing (power) later in their training. And of course, you cant separate the physical from the energetic - so the stronger the physical body, the stronger the energetic circulation, which is the root of internal arts.
"Avoid Prejudice, Be Objective in Your Judgement, Be Scientific, Be Logical and Make Sense, Do Not Ignore Prior Experience." - Dr. Yang

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Re: Dr. Yang's opinion on body conditioning and Taijiquan

Postby adamfuray » Wed Aug 15, 2012 12:53 pm

weight training and conditioning have been part of Taiji since it's beginning. pole shaking, ball training, running, heavy bag work etc. I could be wrong, but isn't Taiji an aerobic form of excercise? Isn't this conditioning unto itself?
"I know sir, that I have played out of tune, but when I learn where to place my fingers, this shall no longer happen."-Giovanni Bottesini
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Re: Dr. Yang's opinion on body conditioning and Taijiquan

Postby fazhou » Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:38 am

Thanks for the great replies. I have to admit that even though I was aware of conflicting theories, I am not well versed in the specifics. What are some of the arguments that body conditioning is detrimental to good TCC?
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Re: Dr. Yang's opinion on body conditioning and Taijiquan

Postby yeniseri » Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:51 pm

fazhou wrote:What are some of the arguments that body conditioning is detrimental to good TCC?


There are none and such a thing never existed! Many of CMA adepts of the past were those who did manual labour (cooks, carpenters, agricultural labour, etc) and they worked with their hands. Depending on their labour skills, they developed accordingly with their specific arts.

Industrial revolution arrives and people work starts to shift to more mechanical labour, easier lifestyle and their lack of strength or conditioning per the labour market decreases (sedentary living) so now to develop the skills, weight training and more obvious physical entrainment is needed to balance that level of training. If you look around at people today, the effects of fat kids, sedentary living, cell phone/Ipads zombies, etc all contribute to less fitness.
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Re: Dr. Yang's opinion on body conditioning and Taijiquan

Postby fazhou » Fri Aug 17, 2012 5:51 pm

An argument that body conditioning is detrimental to TCC does unfortunately exist.

http://www.patiencetaichi.com/public/212.cfm

viewtopic.php?t=4765

Google will turn up many more.
The first article author concedes that some sort of very light weight training (5 reps of very light weight? c'mon ) is necessary to stave off the effects of a sedentary life style but there are others who don't agree.
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Re: Dr. Yang's opinion on body conditioning and Taijiquan

Postby wpgtaiji » Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:45 pm

I truly detest people with their heads up their butts! LOL It is an unfortunate reality that TODAY, stength conditioning is synonymous with lifting weights. It doesnt have to be (and wasnt for CENTURIES)!

There are folks (like Bruce Frantzis) who claimed that they had to undo their pushups (from his book Power of Internal arts), but i wonder. What do I mean? I, personally, have been unable to fit in any rounds of taiji for about 2 weeks now, with life just happening. One session of taiji and the looseness is back.

This leads me to a wondering i had a few years ago from a conversation with a tai chi bloke. We were talking about tai chi and he had no idea that i do it. He made one comment about not being relaxed enough before he did it. To me, that is insane! If you were relaxed BEFORE, then wtf is the need for taiji? That is taken from an idea presented by one of Cheng Man-ching's students in a book he wrote.

Personally, i think this whole idea of "no conditioning" for taiji is a result of the BS going around with the whole "health tai chi".

and fazhou, it isnt unfortunate about people writing their ideas. Even my teacher has extensive information on exercise and taiji (he was against exercising for exercising sake), yet, when i asked people who were with him a long time, they had differing ideas on the topic, based on their experiences. There is no right answer. There is just a right answer for you.

And to be more personal, I started off (after over 20 years of karate training), with the NO strength training ideas i picked up. But having done more research, i found them baseless, and for ME, i need the physical work (though, i refuse to do weights, which, in my experience is mindless and only exists for one reason, neither of which has anything to do with real martial arts).

Dont buy into the hype. Do your own research.
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Re: Dr. Yang's opinion on body conditioning and Taijiquan

Postby sub_human » Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:05 pm

wpgtaiji wrote:I truly detest people with their heads up their butts! LOL It is an unfortunate reality that TODAY, stength conditioning is synonymous with lifting weights. It doesnt have to be (and wasnt for CENTURIES)!

There are folks (like Bruce Frantzis) who claimed that they had to undo their pushups (from his book Power of Internal arts), but i wonder. What do I mean? I, personally, have been unable to fit in any rounds of taiji for about 2 weeks now, with life just happening. One session of taiji and the looseness is back.

This leads me to a wondering i had a few years ago from a conversation with a tai chi bloke. We were talking about tai chi and he had no idea that i do it. He made one comment about not being relaxed enough before he did it. To me, that is insane! If you were relaxed BEFORE, then wtf is the need for taiji? That is taken from an idea presented by one of Cheng Man-ching's students in a book he wrote.

Personally, i think this whole idea of "no conditioning" for taiji is a result of the BS going around with the whole "health tai chi".

and fazhou, it isnt unfortunate about people writing their ideas. Even my teacher has extensive information on exercise and taiji (he was against exercising for exercising sake), yet, when i asked people who were with him a long time, they had differing ideas on the topic, based on their experiences. There is no right answer. There is just a right answer for you.

And to be more personal, I started off (after over 20 years of karate training), with the NO strength training ideas i picked up. But having done more research, i found them baseless, and for ME, i need the physical work (though, i refuse to do weights, which, in my experience is mindless and only exists for one reason, neither of which has anything to do with real martial arts).

Dont buy into the hype. Do your own research.



Ur on a high-carb count, because above^ is the MEAT of what ur saying.. so why all the fluff around ur focal point?

Breeeaathe... my friend breeeathe..
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Re: Dr. Yang's opinion on body conditioning and Taijiquan

Postby wpgtaiji » Sat Aug 18, 2012 3:13 pm

Cuz i enjoy wasting my time telling stories.
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Re: Dr. Yang's opinion on body conditioning and Taijiquan

Postby sub_human » Sun Aug 19, 2012 10:51 am

wpgtaiji wrote:Cuz i enjoy wasting my time telling stories.


Therefore^... u enjoy wasting our time.



.
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Re: Dr. Yang's opinion on body conditioning and Taijiquan

Postby brer_momonga » Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:11 am

sub_human wrote:[Breeeaathe... my friend breeeathe..


I thought it was one of wpg's more positive comments :D ... I think I'm starting to get your sense of humor. ok, back on topic.
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