About Breathing...

[pete5770]

beliefs: when facts just won't do.

Faith must have adequate evidence, else it is mere superstition.

I renew the fact you have no business posting on an internal arts nor a taiji forum.

Since we are on that subject, what is the difference between an internal and an external martial art? Whether it's muscular power, impeccable timing, great senitivity to touch, perfect weight shifting, great sense of "enemy", or any of a hundred other skills a martial art could develop, they all come from the "internal" body. Be it the mind, skeletal system, muscular system, or nervous system. Nothing is produced "external" of the body.

[pete5770]

beliefs: when facts just won't do.

Faith must have adequate evidence, else it is mere superstition.

I suggest taking your money and buying Dr Yang's dvds on qigong. There is more science and proof on them to satisfy, yet you wont do it.

Do you buy books and dig deeply into subjects you don't believe in or have no interest in?

[John the Monkey mind]

Do you buy books and dig deeply into subjects you don't believe in or have no interest in?

Then why keep commenting on a subject you know little about and have no interest in finding out about? It just seems odd.

There is plenty of evidence that meditation and Qi Gong have a positive effect on heath. I have got into martial Qi Gong and found it has a positive effect on power and application.
If you are limiting your internal practice in Taiji to sensitivity you are really missing a lot of the picture and practising an art no more internal than Wing Chun. I doubt it should even be called Taiji. Why not call it small frame Gung Fu or something else that accurately describes it?

[nitsuj]

Internal vs external??? PETER, is obviously NOT looking for an answer, so I'll just mention his question is a poor one (with a VERY simple answer).

The investing in books comment??? This shows he is not interested in actually learning anything. Further evidence his just probing our patience, rather than engaging in meaningful discussion.


***Peter brings absolutely nothing to the table...*** like the guy at the end of the bar that's WAY too drunk.

Peter really should be cut off...

[pete5770]

Do you buy books and dig deeply into subjects you don't believe in or have no interest in?

Then why keep commenting on a subject you know little about and have no interest in finding out about? It just seems odd.

Why? I like the back and forth banter of forums. The debate, the give and take, even the name calling. I'm sort of reminded of the Woody Allen line "To you I'm an atheist. To God I'm the loyal opposition."
Plus, true to my nature, I constantly ask questions. Just ask my wife. She must be something of a Saint to put up with me all these years, especially when people who don't know me(i.e. forums)
hate me from the onset.
Maybe I need to re-phrase my questions, as my streak of sarcasm tends to show through.
As for whether or not I'm doing Tai Chi all I can say is that I'm doing something out there and for lack of a better description I've been calling it Tai Chi. I do recall my last instructor, Dr. Lee, telling me to stay away from anyone claiming that their Tai Chi(or martial art) is the best. FWIW I've actually been told something to that effect, by a few Tai Chi teachers, in the past.

[pete5770]

Internal vs external??? PETER, is obviously NOT looking for an answer, so I'll just mention his question is a poor one (with a VERY simple answer).

I simply asked a question. You, claim there is "...a VERY simple answer". OK, let's have it.
Explain your version of external / internal. Right or wrong, let's hear it. I'm interested, and this is a forum in which you exchange views. That's why I asked the question.

Also, I would argue the point about whether there really is such a thing as a "poor" question.
There are answers that don't work or are wrong, but there are no "wrong" questions.

[wpgtaiji]

Do you buy books and dig deeply into subjects you don't believe in or have no interest in?

pete, you are posting on a TAIJI QIGONG forum. You cannot be that dense, can you?

find a dance forum to harass. qigong /taiji is definitely not your cup of tea.

[nitsuj]

I'm not here to teach basics (or anything else for that matter), and Peter isn't interested in learning them. He mentioned an experience with tai chi (MAYBE hurting his poor, little foot)... and obviously learned nothing concerning the fundamentals. He wouldn't understand where the "beginning" of an uppercut comes from vs. a jab.

Simple concepts elude Peter.

His questions ARE poor questions because he asks not out of curiosity, but ANIMOSITY.

Wouldn't it be nice if he would never... oh, well, never mind.

Poor Peter, I almost pity him.

[pete5770]

pete, you are posting on a TAIJI QIGONG forum. You cannot be that dense, can you?

find a dance forum to harass. qigong /taiji is definitely not your cup of tea.

I think I asked the question "Do you buy books and dig deeply into subjects that you don't believe in or have no interest in?" You asked me to buy books on a subject that you believe in so that I might become enlightened. Actually I have read a few books / chapters on the subject. I've discovered that, for me, there isn't any more boring reading than that. As for Qigong classes, well, in my life I've attended more than a few Tai Chi classes and Qigong was a part of them. I did all that was asked of me, even practiced at home between classes. Plus doing Tai Chi is a form of Qigong, or so I understand. In all this practice, over the years, I have had more than a few of the "ahhhh, that's how Tai Chi works" moments. To my knowledge I have NEVER had an "ahhhh, so that's Qigong" moment. One would think that in all those years I would have, at the very least, tripped over Qigong once in a while.
Don't take it so hard. It's only Tai Chi and Qigong. It's only my opinion and shouldn't influence yours. Your minds are made up and cannot accept any other idea. Me, I NEVER claimed it didn't exist. All I ever asked was for someone to prove it to me. What with it being in existance or known about for 4000 years one would think that somewhere along the line someone would have devised a way to show people an example of it's powers. After all, the claims for what it can do seem somewhat endless. Sort of reminds me of "The Wizard of Oz" with it's great buildup and expectations of wonderful things, then in the end he was just a man. A good man but still just a man.

[pete5770]

His questions ARE poor questions because he asks not out of curiosity, but ANIMOSITY.

I think you're wrong. I really am interested in hearing your explanation of the difference between
internal / external. Like I've said before I believe it's ALL internal, so to speak, nothing manifests itself outside the body. Maybe internal / external is a bad / incorrect way of putting things? What are the roots of this internal / external saying? You hear it all the time in Tai Chi classes. "You must look to the inside, within yourself", that type of thing. To new students this seems to add a sense of awe and wonder to the class(wow, internally). To me it's more of a "Duh". Isn't all exercise about strengthening your body parts, which are on the inside, mostly?
The internal / external thing sounds like the work of a good publicist trying to give Tai Chi a "one up" on the competition by injecting a sense of mystical powers to it. All things are controlled on the inside and any power / force comes from the inside, in all we do. I suppose that you could say external is the entire world that we react to, that isn't part of us.

[nitsuj]

Aren't we all SO PROUD of Peters experience skimming a few chapters in a book or two down at Borders several years back? We should really congratulate him on taking a few Saturday morning qigong classes from some old lady at the YMCA. His experience is so vast! Personally, I think it is SO COOL that he not only has seen Wizard of Oz, but it reminds him of Qigong!!! That is SO awesome!
I mean, really, HE should be the one teaching US!!!

Peter wants proof? What would that even benefit him? Would he suddenly invest all of his time learning the art? Would he return to this forum (god help me!) and actually contribute something?

Something tells me otherwise.

I think it would be nice if Peter keep seeking his "proof"... elsewhere.

PETER, I welcome your next comment, and it's as if I can already read what you'll want to say.
I'm personally satisfied with this conversation and know you won't add any depth to it. Have fun trying to belittle others in your quest to uncover the truth. BTW, your concept of internal/external is very new age. Do your own homework and you'll easily find your answer ( hint: I already alluded to it).

[Dvivid]

Its a real shame so much energy is going into saying so little. If you're really interested in the back and forth of a debate, learn about how debates work: one person presents fact, and then the other person presents a counter argument, also based in facts.

Derailing threads on specific topics, and merely restating the same five things does not make a debate. It makes you annoying, Pete. I have tried to help you.

If you find reading tai chi and qigong theory so boring, you really should not be posing as an authority on the subject. WTF?

There are probably twelve threads with detailed information about the difference between internal and external arts. These terms are translations of the Chinese definitions of two branches of martial arts. They are not meant to be loosely translated based on the basic meaning of the English word. The concept has nothing to do with something happening "outside your body'.

Internal arts (like Tai Chi) are those that were developed with this concept: use the mind to lead the body's energy within your techniques.

External arts (like hard kung fu styles) are those that just use the body for punching and kicking techniques without initial regard for developing increased energy.

But, internal trains until it becomes external, and external trains until is becomes internal. So, they all are based on the concept of developing Qi.

If you had any real interest in a basic understanding of Chinese martial arts you would know this.

[Dvivid]

This thread is about breathing.