Yi Quan

[cgarland]

Does anyone out there know or have any experience with Master Cheuk Fung. I was reading some of his thoughts and watching some of his videos and there seems to be something very impressive to me about it. Does anyone know of any literature that might help incorporate some of his visualizations techniques safely, perhaps something that he may written or a contemporary of his may have written.

[John the Monkey mind]

I haven't trained with him but my Xing Yi Quan/ Yi Quan who is good mentions him and his methods all the time. Very powerful stuff.

[Zwirek]

Does anyone out there know or have any experience with Master Cheuk Fung. I was reading some of his thoughts and watching some of his videos and there seems to be something very impressive to me about it. Does anyone know of any literature that might help incorporate some of his visualizations techniques safely, perhaps something that he may written or a contemporary of his may have written.

Sorry, but it is not worth of watching or learning. Its not a real yiquan (I would rather say this is a fake - see the clip on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=631K9cA-OKo )
Original yiquan is less magic and more physical. The following link leads to the school of Yao Chengguang, the son of Yao Zongxun, who was the student of the founder of yiquan Wang Xiangzhai :
http://www.yiquannet.com/en/dongtai/Index.asp
Believe me, that yiquan is the "real" one

[cgarland]

Does anyone out there know or have any experience with Master Cheuk Fung. I was reading some of his thoughts and watching some of his videos and there seems to be something very impressive to me about it. Does anyone know of any literature that might help incorporate some of his visualizations techniques safely, perhaps something that he may written or a contemporary of his may have written.

Sorry, but it is not worth of watching or learning. Its not a real yiquan (I would rather say this is a fake - see the clip on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=631K9cA-OKo )
Original yiquan is less magic and more physical. The following link leads to the school of Yao Chengguang, the son of Yao Zongxun, who was the student of the founder of yiquan Wang Xiangzhai :
http://www.yiquannet.com/en/dongtai/Index.asp
Believe me, that yiquan is the "real" one

i have never met him or seen this done in person so i cannot be sure, and thank you for the link, i watched the vids and that was very cool. i am just wondering how you can be so sure this is fake, he looks like he has something powerful to me. i for one do not think of chi like he appears to be exibiting as being magical because i have had direct experience with my instructor who has exihibited the type of power where without barely touching people they fly back and we get low and try as hard as we can to not go back to test it and we still get sent.

[John the Monkey mind]

Not wishing to offend anyone but he's not fake. I have had that done to me by two people and although it looks odd its just short jing. Its not impossible if the other person is applying force to bounce them off, it will only work through their tension, if they are relaxed and not using force you couldn't do it.
It looks far more magic than it is. It comes from abdominal breathing and having a very connected body pushing out from your centre. I have both been on the receiving end and started training the method with initially promising results, its not magic and its not fake.

I don't know about his lineage or really care much I just know he is doing what my teacher does to me every week.

Look at 2:04 and you will see what I mean about the tension in the person being pushed. The real skill in application is finding that instant of tension in your opponent or you can just use the same force to hit someone then its not so skilful.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=631K9cA-OKo

If they guys are stamping a bit after the push its a quite natural way of bleeding of the energy from the push.

If you think he is fake find him and get him to push you, then you will know its not fake or magic.

[John the Monkey mind]

my teacher. Reference to mysterious energy is a joke by the way as is pointing with his finger.

http://www.youtube.com/user/rmp96000#p/u/6/k74clw7uyv8

http://www.youtube.com/user/rmp96000#p/u/2/B6JEsRngst8

[John the Monkey mind]

This is more how it would look free form in application from pushing hands. Its not so spectacular because he is having to find the tension in his opponent in a dynamic situation rather than having it given to him in a drill.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82amIexv1V8

Having touched hands with 3 of his instructors and trained in it a bit I can say it is based on similar principles to the ly quan although I-liq chuan is more to do with small circulation wile the other ly quan method I have been shown uses embryonic breathing (although I only know the basics of both so could be miss understanding things).

[Zwirek]

I can say it is based on similar principles to the ly quan although I-liq chuan is more to do with small circulation wile the other ly quan method I have been shown uses embryonic breathing (although I only know the basics of both so could be miss understanding things).

in Yiquan (I train) you don't use "Qi" theory, therefore consideration of small circulation or embryonic breathing is quite odd. I li quan looks similar to yiquan, but whole theory and explanation is different. I would not compare these two styles, they are too different.

If they guys are stamping a bit after the push its a quite natural way of bleeding of the energy from the push.

And that is what I do not like, it resembles me the "Yellow bamboo school" if you know what I mean

Generally there can be clearly seen that guys jump after push / touch with additional motion - and I see there no "power" element, but rather playing around with self cheating that these techniques work. If you believe in it it is OK.
I see that we have quite different points of view and unfortunately I see no way to discuss about it. Therefore this is end of discussion for me.

[John the Monkey mind]

Yellow bamboo is a bit far to go lol

I know in Yi Quan they don't go in for Qi but my teacher is a Xing Yi teacher first and only uses Yi Quan methods for training but still uses Xing Yi theory he views them as one style at the core. Anyway the embryonic breathing is my explanation based on what I know of Qi Gong theory and what I have observed.

I would say self deception if we thought this was a fighting method but what your seeing is honestly just drilling, it clearly wont work that well without a slightly co=operative opponent hence the I-liq Chuan clip. The drill needs your opponent to be stiff for the power to transfer and by power I mostly mean kinetic potential rather than Qi. clearly in a fight this is unlikely.

However if they are exerting them self for a strike you can find the rigidity. Or we use this short expansive force to block attacks and believe me it is not self deception when you hit into that with a hook punch and feel like your arm is ripped of, then their is no bouncing off backward as most of the energy is in your arm and dissipated when it bounces back. Its like hitting a telegraph pole that is moving towards you but still rooted in concreter and has a sharpness side, your power and rooting are less so you regret throwing the strike. The arm you hit barely seems to have moved at all but your force and some of theirs has come back to you. I think you could explained most of it through maths if you know the forces.

The guys I train with fight! On the street (self defence)! Or with friends who are boxers or trained in other martial arts. So this is not a thing with a bunch of frogs down the well we are happy to come out to play for comparing skill. Not that I am very skilled at this yet lol

In application we don't tend to push like that from the arms we make contact on a hard point of the body (elbow or torso) then we push but most of all we use the force to hit. Its Xing Yi connected whole body power.

The pushing as I said is just a drill or can be a test of relative power and rooting. Two people will push into each other and the weaker one go's flying off. This is not fighting application we know you would have a hard time doing this in fighting situation, its a useful training method for expanding force out from the centre wile keeping all your body relaxed but connected. Its this connection that gives the power.

[yat_chum]

No Qi theory. How interesting. This might be an art that my other half approves of.

[John the Monkey mind]

A big focus on intent but then the Li leads the Qi so to me its the same differenced. You don't need faith in Qi you all have it anyway.

[Dvivid]

Yi (intention, or wisdom mind) leads the Qi (energy).

Li is muscular power.

Qi-Li is muscular power supported by increased Qi.

[John the Monkey mind]

Quite right. Sorry I did indeed mix up Li and Yi . Yi Quan (Intention boxing/fist) or Xing Yi Quan (form intention boxing/form of the intention). Sorry for the mix up, I often get turned around with terms. Li is muscular strength and the Yi leads to action with Li. If your intention (Yi) is on a point your Qi will move their quite naturally. However writers often use Li and force without much qualification and this can at times be confusing.