Martial application suggestion...

[lilman]

The other day we were doing freestyle Taiji applications in my class, and I was up against my Sigong, We started off like push hands and I was sticking and adhering to his movements, matching his steps so he couldnt grab me. After about 8 minutes, he couldnt get me, until he got me up against a wall, and charged straight forward using muscle strength (hes big compared to me, and Shaolin is his main Martial art) to tie me up on the wall, I was able to escape his grasp whenever he grabbed me, but was not able to successfully drop him. After about 3 or 4 minutes I got away from the wall using full body jing (is the best way I know how to explain it) to make him step back, and lasted another 2 or 3 minutes before I got exhausted and he grabbed and dropped me.

The actual question I have is, what is good to use against a bigger opponent who is charging you from a close distance with your back against a wall, besides cavity strikes and head wraps, (cuz I couldnt get to his head) to use against that situation. He kept trying to wrap my head with his right hand, which I would dodge, and had my right hand trapped with his left, which I could temproarily escape, but he grabbed back. He temproarily had his right side open for cavity strikes when he tried to wrap me, and His posture was so I couldnt push him over. I couldnt use bump or peng cuz he was coming full force straight forward, and had no access to his doors. You cant use those movements, or shouldnt use those movements straight against the opponent's force. I was also in a position where I couldnt side step cuz I was in a corner and the angle he was coming... I thought of using Carry Tiger to Mountain to drop him, but that was after I meditated on it, and I havent trained it enough to make it effective yet anyway, so he'd probably have wrapped me up. Does anyone think that would be a good strategy or have any other suggestions?

I would like to learn as much as I can so if this does happen in a real fight, or even playing, I will be prepared. I plan on practicing Carry Tiger to Mountain, and any other suggestions to defend against such an attack. If I werent in a corner, it would have been comletely different. Any input or criticism would be appreciated.

[garymthetford]

could you have used drawing a bow to flip him?If you were agaist a wall you would have to advance slightly first, this technique is very useful if you are being charged rugby/football tackle style, and if you get it right it would throw him into the wall as you twist

[garymthetford]

could you have used drawing a bow shoot an at the tiger to flip him?If you were agaist a wall you would have to advance slightly first, this technique is very useful if you are being charged rugby/football tackle style, and if you get it right it would throw him into the wall as you twist

[lilman]

I could've used that or snake creeps down. I shouldve clarified though. The "wall" I was backed into was a mirror... Throwing your teacher into a wall with a mirror, Im sure is frowned upon. But yea. Thanks for the suggestion.

[garymthetford]

I could've used that or snake creeps down. I shouldve clarified though. The "wall" I was backed into was a mirror... Throwing your teacher into a wall with a mirror, Im sure is frowned upon. But yea. Thanks for the suggestion.

I actually got told off by my instructor once by stopping from throwing him into a wall as i didnt finninsh the techinque!

[lilman]

lol yea. Mine doesnt like to teach like that. He prefers fewer injuries and I would probably have to pay for the mirror...

[jfraser]

A few possibilities, IMHO:

Never get your back closer that 3 feet to a wall, if you can at all help it.

Side step, 45 degrees, or 22 1/2 degrees to the rear of whatever side of his seems forward, with your whole, [b]connected body[/b], and use Li, roll back, or ? to guide his body/ via his arms into the wall while you are on the side of his (45 degree stepping) or 22 2/2 degree to his side and somewhat to his rear. The 22 degree stepping puts you in a position to slip by him, and you can attack instantly, but he has to "pause" turn and adjust to attack you again. The counter attack is what ever fits at the time.

To practice this stepping, you need to step whole foot, the you opposing foot follows, touching your leed foot only toe touching, and so on, in the shape of an hour glass, or 2 triangles, peak points on top of each other. This stepping will come out naturally after daily repetitions, without thought, and match whatever your hands and body are doing. No practice, no stepping like this will come out spontaneously!

[jfraser]

The following is a copy of one of my recent posts and my response to a post by Nevin on the Fighting part of this forum:

Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:31 pm Post subject: reply to Navin

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Navin wrote:

Quote:
I have been saying this for years. The real secret to any kind of fighting especially southern kung fu is the angular footwork to adjust distance safely.

Someone mentioned a while back that there was some kind of 8 direction secret footwork in white crane map of manual that was lost.

I am a wing chun fighter and my footwork strategy is to constantly cut angles in all directions based on how the opponent moves in order to keep my advantage of remaining on his flank as i close the gap and keep pressure the opponent with small non committed steps.

The bold emhasis is mine, not Navin's.

Navin, very well said, and I could not agree with you more
These steps are, as you said small, and not commited, and they do keep you outside his flank, and closing the gap, in a way that makes your opponent have to adjust to continue to attack you, and when he does, "its too late!"

And some TJQ styles still move in the 8 directions of the compass, with considedrable pivoting in most transitional movements, and not in the more or less back and forward step patterns seen often these days. The stepping in most TJQ I have trained in or watched has this forward/ back or staying in one place, with some mostly 90 degree angling, This aspect of Contempory TJQ, has not made sense to me for decades. So, I think prehaps some teacher years back removed this stepping from most of the TJQ form sets.

Thank you very much for you very clear and useful perspective.
This perspective also applies to many Silat styles, also.
_________________
"All composed thing are like a dream, a phantom, a drop of dew, a flash of lightening,
That is how to meditate on them,
That is how to observe them."
Buddha, The Diamond that Cuts Through Illusion
Thich Nhat Hanh, p.25

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[lilman]

Thank you Jfraser. I agree with you on the angular stepping. I understand completely why angular and side stepping is important and you should try to stay away from the walls.

Angular stepping and attaching steps was how I mainly avoided getting locked up by my teacher sooner than I did. The only thing is he was rushing forward while I was matching his steps backwards, To my left was 2 other people sparring that I didnt want to get in between, and to my right was punching bags. All I could safely do without getting trapped was back up... And there was the wall... And when I was at the wall, there was nowhere to angular step cuz of the 4-6 stance he was in, his stable root, and what surrounded me. I considered sidestepping and using rollback, but then I would have ran into another student, which probably would have given him a second to recover and respond. So really you can say I chose to be backed up in a corner. There should be some techniques that are effective in a corner... ie, Carry Tiger to Mountain, where you can drop your opponent or move them and escape, without cavity presses. Thats mainly what Im looking for with this post.

[Dvivid]

Master Yang nicely demonstrates angular stepping in many of his applications on his latest DVD:

(Details & Preview Trailer)
http://www.ymaa.com/publishing/internal/taijiquan/taiji_martial_applications_DVD



It includes primary applications for all the 37 patterns of Yang Style Taijiquan, but many of them can be used in other taijiquan forms. By understanding the applications of the movements in one form, it helps you to begin to see them in other sequences, forms, kata...

Having an understanding of a martial application of a movement develops your sense of enemy during your practice/performance of the form, which in turn develops stronger Qi circulation. The Yi Leads the Qi.

So, martial apps are good for you. (but bad for your opponent)