Yang style long pole and spear

[Allo]

There is so little information out there on the Yang style long pole/spear forms. The only reference I have seen was the one recommended by Dave C.:

http://www.plumpub.com/sales/lionbks/lb_liyaxuan.htm

This is supposedly the Yang Chen-Fu lineage of Tai Chi pole. Is there a Yang Ban-Hou Tai Chi pole form out there? Everything I've learned so far is from the Yan Ban-Hou lineage.

Also, what is the typical spear made of? What material is the pole and what type of spear head is used on the end of it? Where would I be able to find one of these?

[Dave C.]

Allo,
One thing that you should keep in mind is that due to face issues, a lot of the students of the older Yangs were made to become disciples of YCF. There was a lot of pressure put on them to maintain appearances. The Yang taiji family at that time was obviously much smaller than it is today. The Wu style was still not even considered a separate branch at that time.

Not saying that Li Ya-xuan was forced to do that. But I know of others that became YCF's disciples due to this issue. So a lot of older disciples came under the YCF umbrella.

Also this division of Yang Ban-hou's style vs. YCF's style, etc. is fairly modern. In that past, it was all just Yang style.

IMO you should try to get the best info you can regardless of which Yang family member it comes from. Good info is just too valuable to pass up because of politics.

Li's book that I recommended to you is the best resource I've seen on any spear system, period. It has pics and descriptions of the moves, the two-man applications, old pics of Li doing it pics of his younger students doing it for clarification, it comes with a free poster, etc.

You just won't find any better resource. (I should be getting a commission for selling this stuff!)

For the staff, get thick whitewax wood. And be sure to soak it in vegetable oil for about a month first. Then set it out to dry. This cures the pole.

[Allo]

Well, I'm convinced. I've went ahead and purchased the book on Yang Style Long Pole.

I'm still interested in getting a spear head for the long pole I have. Does anyone have any advice as to which spear head shape is best? Where would I obtain one of these from?

[Dave C.]

You were convinced? Dang! I should be getting a commission.

Seriously though, it's a good book. You'll like it.

I would add the following comments:

1. most Yang people don't practice spear with the tip. The story is that a member of the Yang family (one of the daughters I believe) was once killed accidentally with the spear while training. So Yang people usually don't practice with the tip out of respect for that incident.

2. I have a spear and a staff, but honestly I think just using a staff to do the moves for both weapons is the way to go. If you get a thick rattan staff you can do the staff and spear techniques, plus use it to staff spar with partners. Because of the flexibility (make sure it's thick though) you can still do fajing. Don't get a thin rattan staff, they're too light and easy.

3. However, doing the fajing will be easier with an actual spear with spear tip. My Chen style teacher wasn't bound by Yang style conventions and taught me to fajing through the spear. I found that the extra weight on the tip allowed to tell when I was doing the fajing properly more easily than without the tip. The red tassle was important, too. He said that proper fajing would cause the tassle to fly upwards because of the sudden shock.

Sorry to seem so full of opinions on this. You chose to talk about something that I really like and don't' get a chance to talk much about.

Good luck in training.

[Allo]

Thanks for the information.

I just received the book today, and although the moves are described in detail and there are photos, it doesn't match having a video for reference. Would you happen to have any links to videos showing the forms described in that book?

[Dave C.]

No, I don't unfortunately. Youtube would be your best bet. There are some examples of decent Yang spear/long staff work on there.

This may seem a bit heretical as well, but if you have access to ANY good long spear/long pole practices near you, regardless of style, then you might want to inquire about training with them. The similarities of long pole/spear between styles is greater than their respective differences. Not saying that there aren't some small details that separate the styles way of doing it, but the long pole material seems to be fairly common and roughly the same amongst the northern Chinese martial arts.

For video reference, Dr. Yang's staff DVDs seem to have many of the techniques in Li's book. They are just done with a shorter staff. But the basic movements are the same.