Tai Chi Energy Patterns - peng, lu, ji, an

Discuss Taijiquan or other soft styles. Theory, practice and applications. Please stay on topic.

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Re: Tai Chi Energy Patterns - peng, lu, ji, an

Postby Dvivid » Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:53 am

Its true, there is a lot of Tai chi for Health. But, that is a good thing. It is very useful for people who need it, and it is a valid way to train Tai Chi. if that were all there was, then yes, we could say Taijiquan is lost! But, there is a spectrum from health-only to full martial curriculum taiji. More Tai Chi of all kinds is a good thing. One out of 100 will be interested to go deeper and learn the martial side, and that is fine.

To dumb it down, these energies, while they exist, were not meant to be taught like this! One does the work, and they are learned. Focusing on them is counter-productive


This is just incorrect. Traditionally, many Chinese teachers would focus your training in the Eight Doors and Five Steppings. Peng, Lu, Ji, An, Cai, Lie, Zhou, and Kao. It is from these eight basic moving patterns and the "Five Steppings" (Wu Bu) that the entire Taijiquan was constructed. In fact, before it was known as Taijiquan, it was known as the "13 postures."

Yes, the 108 form is the original, and the 24-form is modernized. But, to disregard the 24-form is a bit offensive. It is based on Yang-style and has its martial aspects intact. You can learn taijiquan effectively from that form. GM Liang Shou-Yu was a coach in China in those old days, as were many other very traditional teachers who understand the deeper side, and they have been working for decades to preserve and promote the art. This is his school in Canada, where they teach multiple taijiquan forms, plus Liuhebafa, Baguazhang, Xingyiquan, Qigong, and others; and where they understand the 13 postures:http://www.shouyuliang.com/taiji-13-postures.shtml

Question:
Please, if I am wrong, PROVE IT! Show me schools where government taiji (24, 48, etc) do not consist of the ENTIRE curriculum.


Answer: http://ymaa.com/training/schools
"Avoid Prejudice, Be Objective in Your Judgement, Be Scientific, Be Logical and Make Sense, Do Not Ignore Prior Experience." - Dr. Yang

http://www.ymaa.com/publishing
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Re: Tai Chi Energy Patterns - peng, lu, ji, an

Postby wpgtaiji » Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:46 pm

baihe, no i dont do white crane. I never even hinted at that sort of suggestion.

Still waiting for the proof mates! Show me that martial taiji is taught in this world outside of the WTBA (and all of those who were at one time affiliated with Erle). I dare you too!
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Re: Tai Chi Energy Patterns - peng, lu, ji, an

Postby baihe shifu » Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:00 pm

Wpgtaiji,

Hmmm my bad I thought you had a White Crane connection. Can I ask where you are based?

I don't mean to be pushy but you did not answer my questions put to you previously:
Wpgtaiji,

1/. Does it matter a pile of beans if someone only teaches Tai Chi for health??? That's a good thing right?

2/. And what about the person who teaches Taiji for Life-Protection? That's a good thing right?

3/. And why is the 100% "original" (more on this later) form the only one of benefit health or martial or both?

4/. Can you not look at say a 24 Form and make that Martial! If not then your own training might just be deficient?

5/. Did Erle teach Taiji for Health? Yes! Did Erle teach Taiji for Fighting? Yes!

6/. Did Erle make changes to the Taiji he taught? Yes? This is by his own admissions. Does that mean it is any less practical for health, combat or both?


Now back to the "Original" form .... I don't know about you but I am pretty damn sure that no one can lay claim to be teaching the exact 100% ORIGINAL form within any martial arts little alone Taiji! Anyone that claims that is deluding themselves and those who study with them. Each individual within a lineage has knowingly or unknowingly influenced that which they train and teach simply by their own personality, characters and physical traits.

7/. What are your thoughts on the Taiji of Master Yang Jwing-Ming???

8/. So what are your thoughts on the Huang Taiji and the Huang White Crane as both are highly internal almost Taoist in their expressions?

9/. What about the footage of GM Huang bouncing people all over the place with his fajjin? What are your thoughts on this?


Lastly mate the crack at:

Show me that martial taiji is taught in this world outside of the WTBA (and all of those who were at one time affiliated with Erle). I dare you too!


What's all that about? "Where at one time affiliated with Erle"? Sorry Mate, I never stopped being as you put it "affiliated" with Erle!!! I am also recognised as a Full Instructor of the WTBA and the Erle Montaigue System by Eli Montaigue.

Can I please ask you are you currently affiliated with the WTBA as an instructor???
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Re: Tai Chi Energy Patterns - peng, lu, ji, an

Postby wpgtaiji » Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:43 pm

sent you a pm.
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Re: Tai Chi Energy Patterns - peng, lu, ji, an

Postby baihe shifu » Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:00 pm

Sent you a PM in return.
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Re: Tai Chi Energy Patterns - peng, lu, ji, an

Postby sub_human » Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:46 am

:oops:
Unable to face the music..? How shameful..
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Re: Tai Chi Energy Patterns - peng, lu, ji, an

Postby Dvivid » Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:40 am

WPG - if you post the same thing over and over, you'll be banned.

I find it incredibly annoying that I took the time to answer your "question" and you ignored me entirely. I will gladly ban you from this forum if your annoying behavior continues.

I named over 50 schools around the world where taijiquan is taught as a martial art. Are you not really looking for an answer? Do you seriously want to pretend that WTBA is the only source for martial Taiji? This is not the place to do that.

"Avoid Prejudice, Be Objective in Your Judgement, Be Scientific, Be Logical and Make Sense, Do Not Ignore Prior Experience." - Dr. Yang

http://www.ymaa.com/publishing
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Re: Tai Chi Energy Patterns - peng, lu, ji, an

Postby wpgtaiji » Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:07 pm

Actually sub, I sent an answer to baihe in a PM. I wasnt about to let my private thoughts and understandings left out there for ignorants to misunderstand. And so we are clear, YOU are one of those! Right up there with pete. You have shown no comprehension of taiji, or what anything we have talked about means.

as to divivid, i accept that mate. I didnt mean to suggest that WTBA was the TOP, in any way. I asked for NON wtba influenced groups, which in today's market, tis a rare and hard thing to find! You dont realize, that the only reason i stayed posting here was because i considered YMAA to be one of those groups. And besides, of the 1000's of taiji groups in the world, 50 schools really isnt a big dent. In fact, it wouldnt even be considered a dent!

How can i say the above? Erle was the ONLY one, who, in the 80's suggested that taiji was a dim mak art. He was laughed at by "masters" who later jumped on the band wagon, teaching things that can only have come from a few sources. Where was Dr Yang in the 80's with his taiji? RIGHT! Doc Fai Wong said the same thing about Erle in an article he wrote about when he was just learning (hint, they were about the same age).

good luck guys! with no one to argue your points, you are left patting each other on the back at how much you understand, only to have the rest of the world look on in wonderment.

You dont have to ban me! im done with the nonsense
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Re: Tai Chi Energy Patterns - peng, lu, ji, an

Postby Josh Young » Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:56 pm

wpgtaiji wrote:sub, you are a joker! There is lower skill today than at any time in history, and the public, with all the information at hand, is less able to spot real skill or real movement than ever before!

I asked for PROOF, not words! Show me I am wrong!

Prove your own claim.
Honestly what authority do you have to make this claim?
Erle was the ONLY one, who, in the 80's suggested that taiji was a dim mak art.

That is like calling Chinese noodles: spaghetti, which is why he was laughed at. Dim mak is a term not found in traditional taijiquan and Erle's use of it is very strange and misleading but clearly designed to sell books.

WPGtaiji is not an instructor in the WTBA, he has not even been certified for his form work that I know of, his standing is very low but his voice is very loud, perhaps so he can be heard from such a position of low standing?

Just take everything he says with a lot of salt, he doesn't really speak for anyone but himself and hasn't accomplished anything in terms of taiji. The empty vessel rings the loudest.
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Re: Tai Chi Energy Patterns - peng, lu, ji, an

Postby fazhou » Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:04 am

wpg. thank you! you have got to be the funniest, most entertaining member of an online forum I have seen in awhile. you really crack me up! do you do any prep to "get into character" or is this stuff just off the cuff?
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Re: Tai Chi Energy Patterns - peng, lu, ji, an

Postby sub_human » Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:36 am

wpgtaiji wrote:Actually sub, I sent an answer to baihe in a PM. I wasnt about to let my private thoughts and understandings left out there for ignorants to misunderstand. And so we are clear, YOU are one of those! Right up there with pete. You have shown no comprehension of taiji, or what anything we have talked about means.

as to divivid, i accept that mate. I didnt mean to suggest that WTBA was the TOP, in any way. I asked for NON wtba influenced groups, which in today's market, tis a rare and hard thing to find! You dont realize, that the only reason i stayed posting here was because i considered YMAA to be one of those groups. And besides, of the 1000's of taiji groups in the world, 50 schools really isnt a big dent. In fact, it wouldnt even be considered a dent!

How can i say the above? Erle was the ONLY one, who, in the 80's suggested that taiji was a dim mak art. He was laughed at by "masters" who later jumped on the band wagon, teaching things that can only have come from a few sources. Where was Dr Yang in the 80's with his taiji? RIGHT! Doc Fai Wong said the same thing about Erle in an article he wrote about when he was just learning (hint, they were about the same age).

good luck guys! with no one to argue your points, you are left patting each other on the back at how much you understand, only to have the rest of the world look on in wonderment.

You dont have to ban me! im done with the nonsense



My friend,

You have lost the privilege to speak @ me, as you've lost all respect in the martial community. (This forum is read the world over...)

My presence alone, would humble you.. the truth of who you are, at your core, would be apparent before me. What more would have to be said... when your forced to look inward & find the truth..? (kno thyself...)



The answer you seek are there, you are just unable to see them, unable to seek them out. Even when dangled in your face. Nobody here will entertain your half-hearted posts anymore. You are unable to understand, that words mean things.



I personally gave all the proof you needed (however subtle) & you are still unable to grasp it. As did David & others. As your Kung Fu is weak... you put no effort into reading/pondering other's posts.. you are not genuine.

Or, you have^, but unable to accept your own incompetency & lack of inability..?



Lastly, anyone can peruse YouTube and see that You are unaquivocally wrong. That is why you've entertained us so much. But to outright dismiss the entire tai chi community as charlatans..? To call me ignorant..?

Then, to run away..? Run away like you did with baiha..? Unable to face the music..?


:oops: <---
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Re: Tai Chi Energy Patterns - peng, lu, ji, an

Postby baihe shifu » Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:20 am

Run away like you did with baiha..?


I'm sorry, are you referring to me??? If so, what do you mean by this?
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Re: Tai Chi Energy Patterns - peng, lu, ji, an

Postby Dvivid » Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:54 am

As usual, somehow this has turned into a flame war, rather than being a post abou peng, lu, ji, an, with a possible aside about of schools where you might learn about peng, lu, ji, an today.

And for the record, for those interested in answers, Dr. Yang began learning Yang style taijiquan, with its martial arts aspects intact, as a teenager in 1961, and then continued to learn and train during his college years. He began a couple of martial arts study groups, in school and in the airforce, where he began teaching students kung fu and taijiquan.

In the spring of 1975, while at Purdue for his Ph.D, Dr. Yang started the Purdue University Chinese Kung Fu Research Club. While there, Dr. Yang also taught college-credited courses in Taijiquan. He began Y.M.A.A. in 1982, and started writing on the subject shortly thereafter.

His lineage is explained here:
http://ymaa.com/articles/ymaa-taijiquan-lineage
"Avoid Prejudice, Be Objective in Your Judgement, Be Scientific, Be Logical and Make Sense, Do Not Ignore Prior Experience." - Dr. Yang

http://www.ymaa.com/publishing
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