better blocking

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better blocking

Postby grump43 » Fri Jun 10, 2005 3:51 pm

Try instead of using kung fu blocks when you do a technique use western boxing blocks (for exzample instead of doing- Forarm block then punch- do cover block then punch) . I have found this to be much much faster. Am I the only person that has thought of this? For me it works great!!! Please try this next time you spar and tell me if it doesn't work for you guys.
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Postby zipwolf » Sun Jun 12, 2005 9:22 am

Personally i dont find it so much. Ive used covering up recently, but i dont get on with it.
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Postby BaguaMonk » Sun Jun 19, 2005 2:53 pm

It depends on what your objective is. I would never block THEN punch with kuung fu style blocks. I would defend-counter attack at same time. Also alot of KF blocks are supposed to damage the incoming attack, not just "block" it. Sometimes its used to redirect it somewhere else where so you create an opening, hence being able to counter attack immediately/same time. If you have an obvious rhythim of blocking/attacking, then you will probably be beat. Sometimes just moving works well, and just using one hand to make sure you have control over it (trapping). But yes western style blocking is great. Just don't try it on some explosive, devastating, ,straight moving, fist.
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Postby darth_freak » Mon Jun 20, 2005 9:17 am

so...how do you practise the 1st fighting form?
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Postby No.6 » Mon Jun 20, 2005 9:55 am

I'm not a kung-fu practitioner, but have studied Tang Soo Do and Karate for some time in addition to western fencing. My experience and my instructors have led me to the following:

A block, if it's only a block, as you might train block-then-counter, is only a learning device.

If you're learning a foreign language, you don't start out by understanding a whole sentence at once, but by drilling word definitions, drilling grammar, and then working with simple sentences.

As you progress in the language it's assumed that you recognize the words and grammar and you start to get into fluency and making the language a natural part of you. The word and the grammar flow together and you make conversation.

It's the same thing in martial arts, or at least the ones I'm familiar with. First you learn to execute a block, or you learn to step aside, and you learn to punch. Then you learn to block and then punch or step and punch. Eventually you block and punch at the same time, or your block becomes your counter attack, or you step and counter together, or step and block (or trap) and counter, whatever's needed, not mechanically, but taking whatever your opponent offers you and replying to it.

In Western boxing it's the same thing. A slip is nice by itself, but a slip and cross is powerful. A slip with a covering block and counter-punch is added safety. If the cross is followed by a lead hand hook that's just natural. That's fluid, 'fluent' boxing.

The more time I spend in the martial arts, the more I'm convinced there's really only one art which we approach from different perspectives.
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Postby John Noonan » Mon Jun 20, 2005 2:01 pm

Yeah, MMA people follow the "use what works" train of thought.
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Postby No.6 » Mon Jun 20, 2005 8:44 pm

John Noonan wrote:Yeah, MMA people follow the "use what works" train of thought.


I think everyone wants to use what works, what has value. I differ in opinion from the established MMA thought in that I think traditional arts have the strongest and longest-running proven effectiveness.

Even the founder of the MMA theorems, Bruce Lee, first mastered Wing Chun.

Without a firm grounded foundation there's no basis to accept or reject anything else you learn. To use the language analogy, you won't make a great poet if you gain only a 4th-grader's knowledge of five different languages.

When I write that there's only one art, it's because the techniques of each art overlap. I have a copy of The Essence of Shaolin White Crane: Martial Power and Qigong in front of me. I'm looking at p.283, grabbing jin (Kou Jin).

When I see the grab and strike in figure 8-65, I don't see 'kou jin' but a 'croise' from fencing where I take the opponent's lunge and 'grab' it with my blade, sweeping and pressing it down and away and simultaneously allowing my own blade the counter. That's because I spent more than 10 years fencing before getting involved in any other arts. Now that I know a little karate (4 years) and a smattering of Kali, western boxing, and some other things, I also see elements of this technique in some other arts.

However, I wouldn't use a fencing stance to try and do a 'kou jin' grab and hit with a karate punch; the shoulders and the hips and the legs would all be doing the wrong things relative to each other even if the fencing 'croise' is like the Shaolin 'kou jin' is like a trap and reverse-punch in karate.

I would agree with Mr. Noonan's implied statement: stick with one thing and get to know it thoroughly. Not every technique works fluidly with every other technique. If YMAA is teaching a type of block one way, it's probably because later you will find that their block fits into the overall system.
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Postby Walter Wong » Wed Jun 22, 2005 1:40 pm

darth_freak wrote:so...how do you practise the 1st fighting form?

1st Fighting Form isn't using a hard block. It's a redirecting your opponent's punch and not so much about stopping their punch dead on the spot.

I will be at the Portugal Summer Camp this August. We can work on this one if you're there.
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Postby John Noonan » Thu Jun 23, 2005 11:50 am

John Noonan wrote:Yeah, MMA people follow the "use what works" train of thought.


Sorry, i was in a hurry when i wrote this.

Cover blocks are great ways to defend against attacks. The reasoning behind it is that you're not defending against a punch or a kick, but you're defending against an angle. It's easier to have a correct reflexive action. A low cover block can stop a hook, as well as a middle roundhouse kick. The only problem I see is that they tend to work best for (and were designed for) modern boxing. It's easier to high cover block a hook with a glove on it, than it is to cover block a bare fist. There are ways to do it, it just takes more practice.
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Postby BaguaMonk » Tue Jul 19, 2005 3:21 pm

Well in KF, besides the sparring sets, usually you are taught to counter, or at least it is implied. Even in XingYi's sparring sets (hebei at least), you defend then counter afterwards, but it is obvious that you could do both at the same time, and that is the way it really is supposed to be (instant counter). I have found it increasingly easy (against beginners at least) to be able to redirect a a punch, and trab them with their own hands (wrapping or locking). Of course a boxers jab is difficult since it comes in and then comes back. As someone said, I will use whatever works, but I find pretty much any block in chinese arts very effective as long as you are countering, moving, (you could even block then attempt to take them down from an angle), etc. I agree though, if you are going to be blocking, or countering, moving, and angular stepping/attacking is very important.
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