Sam Chien (three wars)

Discuss shaolin longfist, white crane or other styles. Theory, practice and applications. Please stay on topic.

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San Zhan - Three Wars

Postby Crane_Fighter » Thu Aug 04, 2005 2:08 pm

Hi Jo,

I study Fukien White Crane and San Zhan (Three Wars) is the name of the first pattern.

It is a southern style which I am told combines both tiger and crane styles but is not the same as Hung Gar Tiger/Crane.

Here is a list of the patterns and weapon forms which are part of Fukien White Crane:

1st pattern - SAN ZHAN - Three Wars
2nd pattern - SAN ZHAN LIE MA - Strong Horse Shuffle Three Wars
3rd pattern - SHI ZI - The Cross
4th pattern - SHI SAN TAI BAO - Thirteen Wonders
5th pattern - SI MEN DOU DI - Four Doors/Five Elements
6th pattern - TIAN DI LIAN ZHAN - Heaven and Earth
SHAOLIN TONG ZI GUN - Shaolin Perfect Staff
SHUANG DAO - Shaolin Broad Sword
HU DIE SHUANG FEI - Twin Butterfly Flying
BAI HE ZHAN CHI - White Crane Flaps its Wings
SHAOLIN BIAN DAN FA - Shaolin Water Carrier

Hope this is of use to you.

Do you study any Tai-Chi??
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San Zhan - Three Wars

Postby Crane_Fighter » Thu Aug 04, 2005 2:11 pm

Sorry Jo some how the reply got posted twice!! :oops:
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Postby yat_chum » Thu Aug 25, 2005 4:35 am

Hi Crane-Fighter, the blending of tiger and crane fists has independently occurred on several occasions, as well as the two styles you have mentioned this fusion can be found in some systems of Wing Chun and Silat, in Goju ryu karate and many others. Many styles have a tiger/crane form. Feeding Crane has a tiger influence too. The two styles compliment each other so well, that I think that similar fusions will continue to evolve in the future. I personally prefer using palm strikes to the fist and have incorporated the tiger palm into my training.

Your 1st and 4th patterns are found in Yong Chun White Crane. Out of interest, how do the forms on the following website out of interest compare to the ones that you do? http://www.fujianbaihe.com

I don’t study Tai Chi at the moment.
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Postby shuharicrane » Thu Aug 25, 2005 10:23 pm

I practice Shuri Ryu Karatedo and we train San Chin Kata, which is related to the Sam Chien (San Chan--in Mandarin I believe) form that you speak of. I also looked at the video links of the San Zhan forms and think that probably the San Chin we practice is a cousin of the San Zhan.

Forgive me if I misrepresent anything that follows, I am just repeating what I have been taught about San Chin Kata. Please feel free to expand and correct anything that may not be accurate.

In many Okinawan arts it is performed with closed fists instead of open palms, with only three steps forward, and no turns. Chojun Miyagi made these changes to San Chin Kata to prevent Qi/Ki from exiting the body and to help develop external muscles of the arms.

I believe that San Chin Kata was imported to Okinawa from the Fukien Shaolin Temple. Beyond that, I am unsure. However, many believe that the San Chan was developed by Daruma (Da Mo) by combining Indian martial movements with Chinese yogic exercises (yi jin jing and xi sui jing) and that a form similar was used in the temple to help exercise the "non-physical" monks. Though I can't speak for other arts, in our tradition we are taught that the three conflicts spoken of in the title of the form are birth, life, and death.

Like I said before, though, don't take this as doctrine and please feel free to correct me if I have mis-stated anything as I would be interested in learning additional information that anyone can offer.

thanks!
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Yong Chun

Postby Crane_Fighter » Fri Sep 02, 2005 3:12 pm

Hey Jo,

I have checked out this website before but I didnt really spend long on it so it was good to go back there..

I have viewed the forms and they have a lot of similar moves in there but are not quite the same..

I asked my teacher about the Yong Chun origins and he said that what I study and Yong Chun come from the same place..Fukien.

:)
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Postby yat_chum » Tue Sep 20, 2005 9:46 am

I’ve recently have been reading Five Ancestor Fist Kung Fu: The Way of Ngo Cho Kun By Alexander L. Co. This book suggests that Chua Giok Beng the founder of Ngo Cho Kun created the Sam Chien Form. “At that time, there was no master in Fukien Province that could defeat Chua Giok Beng in hand-to-hand combat. As to a result, many of the established masters came to study under him and were thus influenced by Ngo Cho Kun.” .... “In Chuan Chiu, and other nearby places, many adopted his sam chien form to the beginners curriculum.” Perhaps this is the answer to where the Sam Chien comes from, more digging required.
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Sam Chien clips

Postby yat_chum » Sat Jul 22, 2006 11:53 pm

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3 wars

Postby CraneTiger » Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:06 pm

Shuharicrane, In my style the 3 wars are: Mind, Body and Breath. Intresting about the monk thing, I also didnt know that san chan was brought byTaMo
,Interesting.
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Postby yat_chum » Fri Feb 16, 2007 4:04 pm

Pan Gai Noon Ryu

San Chin No Hojo-Undo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYx9gYszmV8
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Postby yat_chum » Sun Sep 23, 2007 2:03 pm

Sanchin Kata In Differing Martial Arts Styles
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzOMYrtNWRI
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Postby Dvivid » Sun Sep 23, 2007 3:17 pm

"Avoid Prejudice, Be Objective in Your Judgement, Be Scientific, Be Logical and Make Sense, Do Not Ignore Prior Experience." - Dr. Yang

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Postby yat_chum » Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:49 am

Heaven, earth and man - the ongoing battles.

功夫要好,三战里找

“To excel in kung fu, find it in San Zhan”.

Okay, how many times have I heard this from all my teachers?

I think it’s easier to count the number of times they did not stress this.

3 rights/battles/advances permeate many Southern Fukien styles and Okinawa/Japanese karate.

The “beginning and the end” of many White Crane lines and nothing else is taught until all the qualities are accomplished according to laid down standards.

So with so many versions, which is the earliest?

Theories and speculations abound and the jury is still out…to put it mildly…

Personally I think we should be examining initial Shaolin “swallow and spit” methodology and “3 rights” which are taught in both northern and then later, southern Lohan systems.

And for Karate folks looking for connections, this next clip from “Fuzhou Whooping Crane” should prove interesting. Not usually done these days, this form is known as “Tiger Crane 3 Battles”, the fist represents the tiger and the open-hand, the crane.

So over to my Karate blog-buddy ……


Whooping Crane "Tiger Crane" SanChin/Sanzhan.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=YLog9TMFfo8

Eric88ling/Russ Smith Weblog
http://eric88ling.wordpress.com/2007/12 ... g-battles/
Last edited by yat_chum on Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Sam Chien

Postby yat_chum » Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:17 am

Sanchin

In both Goju-Ryu, which I practice, and Uechi-Ryu (a close cousin), many of the same sayings exist about San Chin (Three Battles):

Sanchin is of primary importance
Everything is in Sanchin
Practice Sanchin every day
In these systems, Sanchin appears to be a “basic” form, containing (on the surface):

Stepping in a short, basic stance
Forward-facing posture with both hands guarding the middle
Punch or thrust
Grab and pull
Circular block and double palms
Specific breath coordination
Particular posture and muscular tension
But, looking deeper, you’ll see more:

Upper-body

Shoulders down
Back straight and chin down
Elbows close to the body
Punching / Thrusting technique (elbows down)
Block on return punch / thrust
Pulling in and down
Coordination of breathing and technique
Lower Body

Weight evenly distributed
Groin protected
Knees protected
Aggressive, circular stepping technique
Smooth movement, without bobbing up and down
Controlled stepping, keeping the entire foot flat, sliding and searching with the foot.
Each step is initiated by contracting and pulling the foot in, and expanding out to the next step. This assists in defending against foot sweeps, and helps in attacking the attacker’s root.
Unified body

Concentration of energy from ground into punching technique.
Slow technique gives the student the time to think and self-correct structural and technique problems.
Sanchin Testing (”Shime”) varying from body conditioning to assisting the performer in awareness of parts of the body not locked.
Sanchin breathing assists the user in exhaling when attacking, and reserving a small amount of air that
keeps the user from having the wind knocked out of them if struck.
Seeing the little bit I saw of the arts represented in Penang and Kuching, I have to say there is a fair amount of similarity, not necessarily in the shape, but certainly in the intent of the form.

-Russ

Eric88ling/Russ Smith Weblog
http://eric88ling.wordpress.com/2007/12/18/sanchin/
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Postby yat_chum » Tue Dec 18, 2007 11:19 am

Sanchin - from the Chinese side.

Like I said earlier, personally, I think “Sanchins” could be traced all the way back to Shaolin Luohan training methods.

Old texts recorded the concept of “3 rights/straights” referring to keeping the head, upper body to be maintained straight and not tilted or bend in anyway. The buttocks to be tucked in and the feet positioned to keep the body upright.

Sink chi to dantien and all strikes driven by chi and controlled by breathing in the swallowing and spitting actions.

Depending on which styles, muscular tension fluctuates according to requirement. However, most all styles teach opening/closing of the dantien area in clear manners.

And just like in Karate, this is tested by punches or kicks.

Got a clip here describing the above - the explanation is in Mandarin.


Southern Luo Han San Zheng Quan.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Il8kp2_oVo0


Eric88ling/Russ Smith Weblog
http://eric88ling.wordpress.com/2007/12 ... nese-side/
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Postby yat_chum » Sun Jan 20, 2008 4:37 am

Okinawa Goshukan Karate
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=8L_36D_mWQc
Goshukan-ryu version of Wu Zhu Quan San Chien kata followed by Chinese version. #3 is Goshukan-Ryu version of San Zhan demonstrated by Garry Parker
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Postby fearless93 » Wed Mar 12, 2008 3:26 pm

anyone here study master tan soh tin version of sum chien
fearless is a master
master is fearless
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Postby yat_chum » Thu May 08, 2008 4:41 pm

Another version of Sam Chien
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=k42k2MHeKCY
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Postby yat_chum » Sat Nov 01, 2008 1:59 pm

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Postby yeniseri » Tue Nov 04, 2008 10:05 pm

It is actually of Fukien origin (southern China) that ended up in Okinawa.
Despite the differences, they all share the same isometric breathing pattern(s). i saw it practiced alot while in Okinawa in the Shiri area!
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Postby yat_chum » Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:17 am

From 3 to 8.
It is often said that “if you do not do Sanchin, you do not do White Crane”.

I think that statement sums it up; Sanchin is the bedrock upon which White Crane fighting is based on.

And many other Fukien styles use the same methodology.

TaiZu, Wuzu, Dog Boxing, Leopard, Dragon and the list goes on….

In Singing Crane, it is a misconception to say that there is no Sanchin and “Babulien” is the substitute.

SanChin is still the beginning form for many Singing Crane families in Singapore, Malaysia and Taiwan.

“Babulien” is the form following Sanchin and this is also the case for some Fuzhou Cranes like “Flying Crane” for example.

So we know it is not Singing Crane exclusive and in fact, not even Crane Boxing specific.

There are extant Babulien in Fukien Shaolin and Fukien Lohan …just to name 2.

Singing Crane’s Babulien take students beyond the swallowing, spitting, floating and sinking.

All 8 fundamental principles are covered in the form:

Swallowing
Spitting
Floating
Sinking
Springing
Lifting
Bursting
Rebounding
And like I said many times before, translating from Fuzhou to English is so wanting sometimes. The above, is at best, a ballpark guide.

Take another look at the last 4, my Sifu taught that those are the mechanism of “Whipping Jin” generation.

When I was in Denver last year and playing with Sigung Wayne Welch, a Pak Kua high hand, we were exploring the exact same topic.

I was taking a class through basics at that time and exaggerated on the sinking and floating physically and Wayne came up to me and said they got the same concept in Pak Kua.

Except that in their case, it’s called “spiraling”…..

A short clip here showing a segment of Babulien :-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hI6n0enUIj0

Taken from
http://fuzhouwhitecrane.wordpress.com/
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