Longfist Basic Training

[green_thaddeus]

So I recently picked up the book for Longfist, and have been loving it! Unfortunatly, living in rural minnesota, there really aren't any kung fu schools of any type near by. I know that most people think it's more or less impossible to learn by yourself, and over all I agree, but would like to start working on some basics at least, until I can move into the metro area and find a school. So far I've worked the stances and basic strikes to death, as well as the first couple steps in lien bu chuan. Overall, guess I was wondering if anyone had any advice for a solo-trainer? I have some karate experience (Okinowan) and am currently taking Kumdo (korean sword) so I'm not totally ignorant of martial skills. Also, I use my roommate as a test dummy of sorts to try and figure out the practical application for each form. It's slow moving, and I'm and eager kung fu beaver! I'd love any advice...

[green_thaddeus]

So maybe I wasn't specific enough with the questions I asked in the previous segment, either way I've gotten no replies. What I perhaps should have asked is: What are the things that they have you doing in your first couple of months of class? Obviously stances and such, but is there any specif way you should practice these things? I would really love to be able to learn kung fu here, it's been a dream for years, and I've only recently decided that no matter what I will continue my training, I just feel a little...lost.

[Yatish Parmar]

Loren Christenson has a book called solo training.
There is nothing knew in it really. But it provides a nice summary of stuff you can do to train by yourself. The only downside I can see is it is all really arms and legs stuff and can't teach you "body-shape".

[Inga]

Hello Thaddeus,

I am glad you have been enjoying your training. I think you have a very healthy attitude about what to expect working on your own. I would suggest continuing to build your strength, speed and endurance while practicing your basic stances until you can find a school, as you mention when you get to the "metro area". You risk training poor form if you try and progress too far on your own. This is my opinion. But I think you can prepare yourself for being in prime shape for starting a martial arts path when you find the right teacher. I would recommend also watching some of the online videos of experienced practitioners or using Master Yang's DVDs. At our school we begin with tan tuis to teach basic stances and movement. But foot placement and body alignment can't be checked for you if you are alone. I think you feel "lost" because you have a good instinct that you can't do this, in a true form as you would wish too, without input from a trained instructor. Do not lose faith if you wish to study longfist. Continue to read, look online, ask specific questions here, train yourself to be stronger, more flexible and faster. And be patient. Patience is a HUGE component of training martial arts. Perservere with patience, hard work and time. You will make it, if you want it badly enough. Unfortunately we are unable to teach you over the internet, but, we can be supportive of your journey, and I wish you every success.

Regards, Inga

[nyang]

you'll find that students who have trained for some time develop more and more attention to detail. without an instructor, it will be more dependent on yourself in finding that ability to see such details. one of the first steps to improving in anything, not only martial arts, is to know what makes your form and techniques better or worse than somebody else's, and to know what makes somebody else's form and techniques better or worse than yours. from there, it's a matter of being able to coordinate your mind and body to actually make those corrections. a common pattern in beginner practitioners is, sometimes they think too much about the hands, or too much about the legs, or too much about what comes next in a sequence, etc such that they lose track of or forget other parts of the sequence, body structure, and stances --- and that's when it becomes sloppy and loses foundation. such details may include but aren't limited to, the height you are blocking, what part of your arm you are blocking with, stiffness in your body, fluidity between movements, sense of enemy and having a high spirit/focus, blinking your eyes too much, turning your waist, pivoting on your heels/toes, timing of strikes and stepping, coordination of upper body and lower body together, keeping your back straight, keeping your tailbone tucked in and not sticking our your butt, not leaning, always having a good sense of center, balance, root, and equilibrium, ability to move and even jump without losing that center, etc etc etc. i could go on and on, but this gives you an idea of the depth of this art and the long arduous process of the practice. it is no different than doing a sport, writing, painting, drawing, playing an instrument, etc --- everything takes time, practice, and great attention to detail to improve, and that is what makes experienced practitioners stand out compared to normal practitioners. we can practice to become another great Beethoven, or just another pianist. again, learn to study other practitioners and look for what makes them good or bad. we all have our strengths and weaknesses, every practitioner will have both good and bad, and there's always room to improve.

being on your own in rural Minnesota, things in the beginning will certainly be much more difficult and crucial to the success or lack of success in your training. it should get easier though, after you build experience and muscle memory, build good habits such that you don't have to actively keep thinking about corrections. having an instructor or master is important to guide you on the correct path, and to push your limits. you will have to be your own instructor until you can find one to teach you. keep in mind that an instructor/master is not meant to lead you every step of the way, everyday of the week. in fact, in ancient days, many students went months without seeing their master. they would practice diligently everyday by themselves what little they had learned (and masters back then were much more conservative in teaching in very small quantities) once the master saw that they were able to practice by themselves. the European YMAA schools all started out the same way. Dr. Yang would only make it to their country once, or twice if they were lucky, per year, and for not more than a week. then they would go the entire year practicing by themselves. it's amazing how the quality and level of many schools in Europe quickly surpassed many of the other YMAA branch schools in the world. it is actual proof that there's much to be said about the "quantity versus quality" business, and how much you dedicate yourself to the art.

but i diverge, because you are alone, the DVDs and books are not a bad place to start. it is the luxury of modern day to have this option. but, if you do not have that instructor or master to guide you for even 1-2 days in the year, and if you do not train yourself to absorb corrections and remember very small details, it will be even more difficult to progress in your training.

so i recommend:

1. build your attention to detail about *everything*. slowly, you will learn to ween out what you need to keep remembering and what you don't. every individual learns differently, so find your good and bad habits, get to know your body, your mind -- your discipline and your training style. build good habits and quash your bad ones.

first, build your attention based on what you see, from the book photos and videos. second, you need to start developing the *feeling* for what you practice, and feeling is 99% of the time something you just get from pure practice and repetition. you may also be able to get some theory for feeling through reading the book text. find as many angles as you can on developing this feeling, then you will start to get a better idea of it. try to avoid "mindless repetition" during your training, as when you practice without your mind in what you are doing (again, could be anything, not only martial arts), you are more just maintaining your level and not advancing in it. i'll admit, sometimes we get burned out, so sometimes we need some mindless repetition just to maintain. but remember, to really progress in our training, it comes from putting your mind and focus into what you are doing. it's sort of like a meditative concentration. it's no different than when you're taking an exam at school. if your mind is distracted and thinking about other things, then it's unlikely that you will figure out the answers the most difficult problems. another popular example i like is learning to drive. when you first learn to drive, you're always thinking, where is the clutch, the brakes, and accelerator, how much pressure should i apply, where should i be looking, how am i steering, and i turning too wide or too narrow, etc etc. if you only drive once for a few hours, every few weeks or months, no doubt you will not improve. you will still be as jittery and nervous behind the wheel as you were the first time. but if you dedicated even just 30-60 minutes, everyday, of driving in local roads, then eventually to highways (more advanced stuff), then you suddenly realize one day, that you can "drive without driving" -- meaning, you are driving, following all the rules, and fully controlling your vehicle, but at the same time, you are able to now tune the radio, talk to other people in the car or on the phone, sing, and you're still driving at the same time. Dr. Yang often called that "regulating without regulating". in the case where a driver can now multitask, the driver is also doing a "mindless repetition" thing though. because not all of us are trying to become professional drivers, once we reach a level we're comfortable with, we stop trying to refine the practice, such as our braking distance, the time it takes for us to accelerate and shift gears, how we maneuver around traffic or tight situations, how to avoid accidents and swerve the car if necessary, how to control the car well in slippery situations, etc. only the people that continually think about how to improve their skills and practice will achieve that higher level. the whole point of this example being, practicing martial arts is no different. you can be the casual driver, or the serious driver --- the casual practitioner, or the serious practitioner. you can be at a level where you can go through all of the motions, and look like you're doing authentic martial arts, but to take it to the next level, to know how to swerve that car and accelerate, it will all be up to you. another analogy, similar to how we always recommend finding an instructor, people who go on to become professional drivers often have driving instructors at auto or racing schools. your practice all depends on your goals and how deep you want to take it.

2. definitely build off of your skills in Karate and Kumdo. even ask your Kumdo instructor about basic stances and postures, dos and don'ts, things like that. ask about tips as well, on how to better move and condition your body. nothing will ever replace getting the knowledge and advice from an experienced practitioner in-person. just make sure you ask the right people, as in this money-hungry modern day world, there are a lot of pretenders. you'll find that most effective martial arts styles all follow the same principles. for example, we shouldn't be applying techniques and forms with our groin exposed and leaning out-of-control in awkward angles. ask your roommate as well, when you practice, that if your roommate was really trying to attack you or struggle with you, would your technique work? or what followup technique would you have to do if your roommate countered your move? or slightly moved to the left side or right side, was slightly shorter or taller? things like that are all, again, details details and more details ...

3. when people say it's impossible to learn on your own, i partially disagree. you can achieve a good foundation if you just have the eye for detail, and sometimes you need talent as well. but the main things you need are that right mind for it, the dedication, and again, eye for detail. as Inga said though, it could also take the other extreme and you could end up with really poor form and horrific habits. be mindful of your training and question why you do or don't do things in forms and techniques. in YMAA, after a certain level, we are actually expected to create our own sequences and forms, because once you reach a certain level, you should be comfortable enough with these basic principles to do so. so you mentioned that you've worked basic strikes a lot. have you tried hitting a punching bag? a target? a moving target? would you still have your balance if you actually hit something? or would you fall over? could your opponent push you over if you missed? are you stepping? forward? backward? angling? are your hands conditioned and tough enough? or are you just touching your target and not really striking? is your fist aligned? or will you break your wrist if you try to punch a hard target? are you transferring the power all the way through your arms, hands, and *into your opponent*? or does it stop at your chest, shoulders, or the surface of your hands? are you using your whole body behind your motions? or are you isolating and fatiguing just certain parts of it? are your heels floating off the ground when they should be flat? from videos and photos, you should be able to grab a mirror, and videotape yourself, and compare. form-wise, ask yourself how closely you are able to match. keep in mind, there is some room for variation and slight differences, depending on body structure and type. every individual is different. again, just look for the principles that are being trained, not things like "my foot was turned 1mm too far to the left". the forms should look similar enough if the principles are followed.

4. but again, if at all possible i also highly recommend you find an instructor to make sure you are practicing correctly and building proper habits. as Inga and several others mentioned, you risk training poor form and foundation if you progress too far in what you only think is correct. even if you could see a teacher for just a few days in the whole year. even if you have to travel a bit to get it. just take very detailed notes when you get those lessons, and don't forget what you learn, treasure that time and knowledge like gold, and it'll all be worthwhile.

5. i also agree with Inga that patience is definitely a big key, so is perseverance, will, and endurance. i also agree that building strength, speed, and endurance can only benefit your basics. most schools these days actually don't stress enough conditioning, as especially with Hollywood hype, most people are more concerned with flashy techniques and things that "look good". but you will need all those conditioning skills to effectively execute any technique, especially in a fighting situation. endurance is especially important to build, otherwise you will lose steam in the first minute of an encounter, and in a real encounter, you will lose endurance 10x as fast as in a practice studio. all the techniques in the world can't help you if you are unable to execute them with speed, strength, and endurance -- and very importantly, with good timing.

6. remember that upper body and lower body need to work together. arms and legs should be coordinated, and the waist is the median controlling point. learn to build a connection and fluidity between transferring power and motions from upper body to lower body, whether it be in kicks, punches, or throws, or anything else. chest, spine, waist -- all very important. if you need to, focus on purely the upper body techniques first. then focus on purely the lower body techniques. stationary first, and then moving, and then stepping. once you have upper and lower to a good level, then combine them and work on getting them to play nicely and cooperate with each other.

this was a longer post than i was planning. hope i didn't lose you anywhere.

cheers,

[green_thaddeus]

Wow! You are all awesome! Thanks so much for all your input. It's really good to have support in this, alot of people tell me I'm a fool to my face for trying to learn on my own. On the topic of stance practice, anyone think it would help to have my roommate "attack" me while I practice stances etc. to work on balance and stability? We've started using the drills from the free fighting section in the end of the book, and they help alot, but thats my one main concern: stability. I know in the book it says to practice ma bu on bricks so you can be sure your weight is properly distrubuted...anyone have any tips for other stances?

Otherwise, thanks again for all your help! I'll be keeping an eye online for move videos (so far the best I've found were at chinahand.com, anyone know any tohers?) and keep training! I'm not usually much of a message board type of guy, but will probably be on here more often, as it seems like you are all great people....so I'll be back!

[nyang]

partner work is a definite must at some point in your training, but remember that it is important to first develop a strong foundation for your stances and root, otherwise your training will be shallow. if you want to work on balance and stability particularly, i recommend standing on bricks, Pushing Hands, and Taiji Ball. the same concepts of internal styles also apply in Shaolin. the thing to be careful with on brick training is to make sure the bricks are wide enough apart (so that you aren't standing with your legs straight) and that you don't stick your butt/tailbone out. those are 2 common mistakes i see in beginner students. build good habits, not bad ones. also practice standing on one leg on one brick. see how many minutes you can stay there. 5 minutes is pretty standard. some ppl can go for 10, 20, 30 minutes. takes a lot of time to build up to though, definitely don't rush the training and strain your body. slowly condition it up.

personally, i think partner stuff is best-suited more for things like applications, sparring and reaction, wrestling, distance training, etc., things that involve the other person more. to have somebody come try to push you off balance while you're in a stance, while it is a valid method of training, isn't very realistic; in real a fighting situation, you wouldn't be sitting there like a duck, and you could probably do this drill just the same by pushing a big punching bag and letting it swing into you. also, it's hard to find a good partner to practice with as well. if a partner is too passive or aggressive, it does not help you progress. if a partner does not have the skill level appropriate, it does not help you progress.

the balance and stability you talk about can be trained on your own, which is why i think Pushing Hands is a much better way to do it if you have that opportunity of practicing with a partner. too easy? do Pushing Hands on top of bricks without falling. when you get to learning throws and takedowns, i think the drill that maybe you were thinking about is being resistant to getting thrown and maintaining your root that way, which can be difficult when the throw is done correctly, and those situations shouldn't last for more than a second in a real fight.

learning techniques and moves from just books (photos and text) can actually be one of the hardest ways to learn. there is much left up to the imagination to fill in the gaps in between photos. in the past, people who have learned purely from the book came up with nearly entirely different forms and techniques from what was originally intended.

books and videos are best used as reference material. of course, when you don't have the options, learning from books and videos is better than nothing. just keep an open mind so that when you actually do find an instructor, you will be ready to undo a lot of what you did. remember to try to search out the feeling for the correct principles, as those should not change, no matter how and what you practice.

we have some fundamental training material posted online on the YMAA Boston website. hope it helps

http://www.ymaaboston.com/media/videos/reference

[green_thaddeus]

WOW! Those videos will be a really big help. I've been doing those excercies since I got the book, but seeing it in action is a big help. As soon as I get paid (next tuesday) I'll be picking up the DVD's, really can't wait for them!