Open Hand vs. Closed Fist

Discuss shaolin longfist, white crane or other styles. Theory, practice and applications. Please stay on topic.

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Open Hand vs. Closed Fist

Postby Yue » Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:19 pm

In my experience, open hands are faster and allow for more blocking options (palm block), as well as faster grappling. But do these benefits outweigh the risk of being attacked by finger chin na?
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Postby yat_chum » Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:55 am

Hi Yue, you might find the following link of interest.
http://www.ymaa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=664
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Postby Yue » Tue Feb 05, 2008 3:48 pm

Thanks, that is a cool thread. But what I meant was more in the context of the guard. My guard consists of one open hand out in front of the body and the other arm barred across the solar plexus with the hand open, fingers touching the inside of my front arm's bicep. I saw this guard in the Long Fist book and decided to try it out, and so far it has worked great. But a couple of my sparring partners are getting into chin na, and I was wondering if anyone has any input on whether or not I should keep the hands open or close them into fists.
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Postby DOM » Tue Feb 05, 2008 4:02 pm

It sounds like you are fairly new to the martial arts. If so you should probably stick to closed hand guards. To apply Qinna in a sparring session never mind a real fight takes a lot of skill especially against a fairly well trained fighter. For some one to apply a finger Qinna they have to be at a close range, have great timing and be very quick. Never allow them to close the rang or the chance to set you up and they will not be able to apply a Qinna.
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Postby Yue » Tue Feb 05, 2008 6:22 pm

You're right, I've only been practicing for like a year. But I've learned a lot in that time through an almost scary amount of sparring. I've sparred mixed martial artists, grapplers, southern style practitioners, northern style practitioners...but I don't know anyone who does Long Fist, so I have to rely on this forum for questions like this.
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Postby yat_chum » Wed Feb 06, 2008 11:57 am

Hi Yue, on the subject of Chinna, I have very little experience being predominantly a striker. I personally favour the use of open hand techniques finding them more versatile than fists. I have played a bit with Jujitsu and aikido people and have not really encountered any difficulties.

However, I would say though from the description of your guard that you would be open to being trapped.
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Postby Yue » Wed Feb 06, 2008 7:59 pm

What kind of guard would you recommend, then? I haven't had much luck with the standard fists at about neck level with the elbows down in front of the chest, which my sparring partners usually use, and I've had a lot of luck with the guard I mentioned, but I'm open to suggestions.
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Postby yat_chum » Thu Feb 07, 2008 11:37 am

Hi Yue, firstly I'm not an instructor, just a player, the guard I use is found in many styles. The elbows are down and in, hands are along the centreline. My enticing hand would be out in front at chin height, my protecting hand would be behind and lower with the fingers being at the height of the wrist of the front arm and level with the elbow joint.

I have tried to find some pictures to show what I mean, these are the best so far. My arms would be bent an bit more than in the first picture.
http://konghankungfu.com/myPictures/Mon ... ngfist.jpg
http://www.tao-te-ching-kung-fu.co.uk/a ... _sau_1.jpg
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qinna

Postby jfraser » Thu Feb 07, 2008 12:19 pm

My understanding from some CMA's (such as Bajiquan and Lan shou Quan) and especially Ninjutsu, is that to apply qinna or qinna and throwing, you need to strike hard enough to really stun the opponent, then you have a chance to apply these techinques. Without this stunning, and in light or no contact sparring, applying qinnq is most difficult and often dangerous.

Some Aikido styles almost always hit/strike first then apply various qinna.
This is not true of all styles of Aikido.

And angular stepping and getting off his center line is most important to apply qinna, this angular stepping buys you time and a momentary space of advantage to use to STUN and apply what qinna fits the situation.
It is best if you just find yourself move around feeling out an opponent, to not think about applying this qinna or that, just apply with fits at the time. Remember to hit him where it hurts first. To be able to do this with some confidence requires a lot of drills or 2 man practice, which includes the set up, stiking and application. That is how I see it, IMHO.

:D
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