I found videos with the same forms we have!!

[darth_freak]

I found on youtube videos with long fist forms like ours which [i]really[/i] looks like ours! [b]YOU MAY WANT TO MUTE THE SOUND CUZ THERE'RE VERY LAME SOUNDS[/b]
DOM, I'd like to know what you think about the Shi Zhi Tang performer.

lian bu quan http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-xTb73w ... ed&search=

Gong li quan http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zorsx50D ... ed&search=

Er Lu Mei Fu http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFGyGwy3 ... ed&search=

Shi Zhi Tang
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boY5No1L ... ed&search=

Bagua Dao http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ffUu8Tq ... ed&search=

San Can Jian http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8aVyzAF ... ed&search=

maybe it's from someone who lived in the same period as Master Han...

[DOM]

I am only familar with linbu chaun,and gung li chaun and not well enough to comment on the tecknical aspects of the forms.But what I will say is they all lack power.They all seem to have a sence of enemy a good flow and artistic flavor, but still lack spirit and the power to be effective.A few of them look like they are alittle unsure of the form.There are many ways to practice forms,soft,hard,fast,slow and a combination of these.But I doubt this is the case since they all seem to be performing, they taped it and put it on the web.My Sensai always told me the way you practice will be the way you fight.So practice as if it is a matter of life or death.This was exspecialy important when performing and practicing forms,since a form should similat a fight against imaginary opponants.Not one of these performers display the spirit or power that is required to defete an enemy who is trying to take your life.IMO when you are performing this must be visable.

[yat_chum]

Hi DOM, could you post some links to clips that really impress you.

[darth_freak]

I agree about the lack of power; but now you are kinder than I am. I found only the Shi Zhi Tang performer had a sense of enemy...maybe it's just because he's going faster or because he's got a bit more power...(though I'll keep looking for videos that you will really like, DOM . Thanks for the input)

[DOM]

your right, that guy had a much higher skill level.His performance of the form was very pleasing to the eye,he moved from one tecknique to the next very skillfully.His sence of enemy was there for every tecknique.But ask your self this,dose any of the teckniques he exucuted make you feel that if he hit you he would hurt you.To be honest very few impress me.I have not seen many Kunfu practitioners.I do not surf the net so I do not have any video to share.But I am with Ymaa for a reason I like what have see from the beginng.Martial power,Martial intent,and sence of enemy in all that we do.Just take a look at the videos and those in them.I hate to point out and name individuals but for lack of exsperiance with others I will.I beleave in the first few LongFist videos it was Jeffy bolt.Look at Kathy Yangs martial power intent and sence of enemy is so much greater than any of the videos You have posted,I would not want to be hit by here,and she is a woman( boy this comment should start a thread ).Gearge,Ben,Arron,Walter the South African(sorry can not spell his name) to name a few that I know of;will cause great damage if they connect with.I have not been hit by any of these peaple but I have trained with them and have seen them perform.I can tell from a single tecknique that you do not want to be on the receiving end of any of there teckniques.Even the young kids in the vidoes all show more spirt, martial power,and sence of enemy than what I have seen in any of these videos.

[DOM]

ps.Don't get me wrong I enjoy the videos, keep them comming.I do not get a chance to see many other kungfu practitioners.These last ones were even better cause they are the ones we also do.In fact I found it interesting and liked the fact that in the two I am familar with linbu chaun and gungli chaun there are some angler exscapes and attackes that I haven't seen in the way we do them, inless you are practicing applications.

[kame]

he kinda of stumpy....

[brycia8]

it looks like they arent connected to the ground in their stances...no root?

Bryan

[Dave C.]

This is Zhou Bao-fu from Taipei. He's my teacher and I've studied several of these sets with him.

He learned briefly with Han Qing-tan and with Shen Mao-hui, one of Han Qing-tan's top five students.

Zhou laoshi does the forms this way to stress flow, smoothness, and elongation of the body. He doesn't want students to be tense in any way when . Most of the foreigners who come to him to study are very tense.

Beginning long fist training isn't about fighting -- it's about building six harmony movement, relaxation, correctly learning how to use the waist to power the movements, and (most importantly) stretching and opening up the body. This body development stage MUST be done first in order to perform correct long fist. Without it, the student will never be able to move the long fist way.

BTW, Shen laoshi also stresses this type of movement in all the forms so Zhou laoshi picked up this emphasis from him as well.

THE standard is Han Qing-tan himself, and you can see his performance in this clip:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=PULhMmsuDqI

You'll notice that he does NOT perform tantui with a sense of fighting in mind, but does it to elongate the body. Doing the form faster or with more obvious power comes after doing it at this stage for quite a while.

So Zhou's performance of these sets is not in anyway incorrect.

Dave C.

[Dave C.]

BTW, the sound effects in the videos are there because Zhou laoshi was an actor in kungfu movies back in the 70's. When he got older, he became a video and sound effects editor for the kungfu movies. So adding the effects is just how it's supposed to be done in his opinion I guess.

[darth_freak]

that's my point! it sounds like a kung fu movie that way, though it should be a demo or a presentation of the form.
But thank you for explaining why

[Dave C.]

Besides the sound effects, did you get my point about Zhou's performance in the clips? Please see my post above.

Also about the shi zi tang performance, the performer doesn't have more skill or power than the performer in the other videos -- Zhou laoshi. The performer in the shi zi tang clip is a STUDENT of Zhou's. His performance has bit more of his personal flavor to it.

Dave C.

[darth_freak]

yep. It was included in the "thank you for explaining why". And it's rather interesting because so far I noticed that most of my technics lack smoothness, so, reviewing the videos, I'll try to get smoother moves, especially when there's a block followed by an attack like the last move in lian bu quan

[Dave C.]

One thing that Zhou laoshi taught me about long fist that might help you with the smoothness is to link the moves together. He's really big on students not doing one move then another move, etc. Doing sequences of movements helps with smoothness both in forms and fighting so it's a good way to train.

[darth_freak]

Hey DOM, check this out. I'm pretty sure you're going to like the guy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f48lAjfJLek

[DOM]

Ya thats what I'am talking about,fighting spirit, sence of enemy and martial intent.Is this not one of Master Yangs few dicipals,and know one of Master Liang Shou's?

[Dave C.]

Going fast and using obvious power is easy to do once you have the training down. But then this is a demo at a martial arts competition. NOT a teaching DVD as with the clips of my teacher above. The clips have different purposes.

But yes, this clip of xiao fu yan is a good one.

Dave C.

[darth_freak]

that's one of Master Yang's former students. That was like 15 years ago. One should ask 19thlohan, he's registered on the forum though I think he hasn't posted for some time and he's the one who uploaded the video on youtube. He also got a video of Master Yang doing San Can Jian with some guy named Sam (the video is "Dr Yang's jian").


Yes Dave, the clips have different purpose. Though your teacher's clip on youtube are a little fast. Of course they're only clips and maybe these are the medium speed clips. I wonder if there're 3 speeds on your Master's videos because it would still be interesting to see the forms done with power etc.
Also Dave, I wonder why our Beng Bu is different from your Master's and whether your school has Yi Lu Mei Fu... (unfortunately I still haven't got our beng bu on video :-/)

[trimax]

The link to Dr. Yang's "San Cai Dui Jian" was not mentioned above, so here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fp9cKeUiW_0

[Dave C.]

Yes Dave, the clips have different purpose. Though your teacher's clip on youtube are a little fast. Of course they're only clips and maybe these are the medium speed clips. I wonder if there're 3 speeds on your Master's videos because it would still be interesting to see the forms done with power etc.
Also Dave, I wonder why our Beng Bu is different from your Master's and whether your school has Yi Lu Mei Fu... (unfortunately I still haven't got our beng bu on video :-/)

There are differences between different teachers even in the same lineage here in Taipei. My teacher's beng bu (mantis is his main style) may have influences from his studies in Hong Kong. Also, many (if not all) of the mantis forms done by Han Qing-tan's students have been re-worked to fit a more long fist style of movement. They aren't the same as the original mantis forms.

Si lu beng da is a great example. It was reworked by Han to make it look more like long fist.

My teacher does know yilu maifu but he's told me that it's basically a demonstration form. It apparently doesn't improve your martial arts much because it's mostly just flashy. Of the three maifu forms -- yilu, erlu, and wulu -- erlu is considered the most essential with the other two being of lesser importance. I'm not interested in doing every form that we have, just the really good ones (haha), so I won't push to learn the yilu maifu form.

Dave C.