cha quan

[darth_freak]

has anyone ever seen the Cha Quan sequence? If so, does it look like any of these forms:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=fpWELFWecvM

http://youtube.com/watch?v=wH5CCqAtcgc

http://youtube.com/watch?v=lOaIi4HB2SM& ... ed&search=

I find them really nice, especially the San Lu and the Yi Lu. It doesn't look like wh shu long fist where they run before jumping for a better jump and stuff.
Really nice long fist forms!

[DOM]

no power,no martial intent, no sence of enemy, great athletic ability but I really doubt if they can protect them selves in a fight,but I bet if they had ice skates on the would do very well in the olympics.

[darth_freak]

hmm...I find there's still a bit of martial intention. Not in the first one which really looks like modern wu shu but it's not like the form was designed as a pure "dance".

I changed the third link (I had mispasted it) and the man seems to have some martial intent.

I cannot disagree about the lack of power.

[Patbirder]

Yes, cool forms. I thought the guy doing erlu had power in his form though. For the sanlu guy, I wonder if he is practicing the form in a soft way?
So maybe these guys need to work on more power, sense of enemy, etc. Don't we all? Nice to see Cha fist forms that don't seem so wushuified.

[darth_freak]

[quote]Nice to see Cha fist forms that don't seem so wushuified.[/quote]

that's why I wanted to show those. San Lu seems kind of wushified as you say; or maybe it's just because the practitionner is more into beauty of movement, grace and stuff...
But anyway I did't really care about the practionners, it was the forms in themselves that I found intersting. They look like real long fist, with potential martial applications and especially no funny movement as you can see in "modern" long fist.
(what I call modern long fist is something between kung fu and modern wu shu, something that still uses kicks and punches but, as DOM says, with no power or martial intention, only for the competitions).

But has no one ever seen the cha quan form from our curriculum?

[Inga]

i agree darth freak, i see long fist..elements of lian bu chuan, gong li chuan, yi lu mai fu, and tan tuis 4,6, 7 & 8. i bet there is more in there i don't recognise yet. the music is quite distracting, but at least one can switch that off. the potential for power and martial intent is there..you don't think so DOM?

[DOM]

yes inga,there is the potential for martial power,but I see a lack of it in these gentelman sorry.I understand one can focuse more on the internal side wile practicing but I do not beleave this to be the case.These are young talented men with a high level of skill but I feel they still lack martial power and intent.I could never perform and never will have the athetic skill level as these men.There is no doubt they have good kung fu.May be it is because I come from mostly a karate back ground were fancy teckniques were never used.The main focuse on the style was to destoy your opponent with a single blow and they wanted to see this clearly wile perfoming forms.An artistic and astetic perfomance was incouraged but not to the point were martial power,martial intent and sence of enemy would suffer.I do not realy like to use this as an example but I will for the lack of my exsperiance with other kung fu practitioners.Take Gearge,Walter Kathy and the rest of those including the kids on the dvd kunfu fundamentals from ymaa.They all IMO have a lot more martial power and intent then the men from these videos.This is what I am us to and is what I like to see.IMO with out it it is just onther sport and not a martial art.

[darth_freak]

very good point. *respect*
so would you have any videos to share that show what you speak about. With all the martial arts videos/demo I've seen, I haven't seen much of what you speak about...

[DOM]

Sorry no videos,and do not know how to post them anyway!What I speak of is not rare.Most if not all tradition karate styles like to see this.I am sure it is this way for all styles of martial arts,or at least was at one time.Maybe I was alittle harsh in my statment,the guys in the video are outstanding.I did go back and view the clips again but still feel like I was watching a gymnastics floor routine or ice skating routine.I feel the tournement seen has led to more and more of this kind of performance. Even at traditional events.I like the idea of competitions if used to test and improve your skills,but today there is way to much emphisis on them.Every one wants that big shiny trophy a pat on the back and to be called the winner in front of an audiance.Practioners schools and intire systems maine focuse is on competions and doing well at these events.IMO although this is atracting many practitioners to the arts,it is hurting the martial arts as a whole. There are way to many unquilified judges who are looking and comparing a martial art performance to other sports and enterment events.Because of this intire systems have changed there way to adabt to this.although these styles are purducing exceptional and outstanding athelets the emphasis has swayed from there original meening and in doing so evoved into a sport that must be ententaining to others,exspecialy the judges.

[dc]

i like wushu; geez i even teach it...BUT I cannot stand current wushu. no only does it not have any power whatsoever, but it looks like complete dren.

in the past, wushu people had really good basics -- mine improved massively when i picked it up -- but now they all just worry about adding nandu for the tournaments. horrible, horrible.

on the other hand, i'm glad there are still freaking awesome teachers like nick gracenin who prefer to veer away from the tournament scene and just focus on teachin' it like it is!

i miss ymaa.

[darth_freak]

i miss ymaa

so come back!

[Lost Track Fatty]

I like the forms. I'd have to disagree and say they do look like some of the wushu forms (at least the older training forms)... or it may be more acurate to say the older training forms look more like these Cha Quan forms since they came first and that's what the body work of modern Chang Quan was originaly based off of :p I can see what you mean about the lack of intent though. They're kind of walking through their forms. I thought I saw a bit of the martial spirit with the first young guy though, at least on a few techniques.

[Lost Track Fatty]

in the past, wushu people had really good basics -- mine improved massively when i picked it up -- but now they all just worry about adding nandu for the tournaments. horrible, horrible.

on the other hand, i'm glad there are still freaking awesome teachers like nick gracenin who prefer to veer away from the tournament scene and just focus on teachin' it like it is!

Yeah, it sucks... I tore my knee up pretty bad a few months before the newer compulsories hit (those didn't last long did they!) and then the nandu system soon after that. Checked it out a bit, and it felt like learning a whole new martial art. Really threw me off for a loooong time, trying to figure out how I could fit into this new wushu, what I should be learning, and whether I really wanted to learn it :p Quit for awhile, and now I'm just coming back and going traditional while keeping what I felt were the best basic training drills I learned before.

[DOM]

IMO it is time to Call Gung fu Wushu and Wushu Kungfu.If the martial essence no longer exists it has no right being called Wushu.To call it Kung fu is much more correct and fitting.There is no shame in calling anything that takes such incredible skill,effort and time Kung fu.But calling it martial when it is not is a different story.