vertical or horizontal fist?

[yat_chum]

Vertical fist or horizontal fist which is best?

[darth_freak]

it depends on what you want to do!

horizontal gives a better spin so the strike will be more powerful if you touch; it's espcially used in long fist.

vertical is fast; so it's good to strike the nose or the ears or give little quick punches hither and thither.


no thing is better than another; it just depends on what you want to/can do!

[adelbrecht10]

Hey Guys,

I used to be at YMAA before I had to suddenly quit. I graduated from college and wasn't accepted at the med school in Boston. I've been doing YMAA stuff in my spare time and I would like to make sure I remember the punching basics. Since I haven't had an instructor see me I am afraid that mistakes might creep in.

My understanding is that when we punch in long fist, we keep the shoulders relaxed and punch out in a straight line, taking care not to tense the muscles until the end so that no energy is wasted in tension. Also, during the horizontal fist punch we should turn the fist at the very last moment for maximum force.

Recently, I was practicing Gong li and I think I hyperextended my elbow. I find that when I do this set and try to get the power out, I tend to put a lot of stress on my elbows and shoulders because at the end of the punches my body kind of jerks. For example, near the beginning where I turn from ma bu into deng san bu and punch out to the side, I try to keep my body relaxed and push off the back foot so the force comes from the ground, through my body, and out to the fist. When my hand is in full extension I feel the jerk. Is this correct? Did I hyperextend my elbow because I didn't relax my arm after full extension?

[darth_freak]

keep in my mind this is long fist, not white crane or taiji...you should tense up when you finish your punch so that the muscles protect the joints; I used to do what you describe...and I got elbow pain till I understand that it wasn't the same power as white crane!
when you pratice long fist punch, you should try to think that you want your fist to go through the enemy's body. so there's no pulling back whatsoever.

also, the power comes from the whole body, push with your feet, jerk your waist and gather all that power in your fist to literarily breakthrough the enemy.

(if you don't see what i mean and if no one gives a better explanation...let me know...hopefully, Walter may come by and will tell us everything we have to know )

[Walter Wong]

Albert, train your elbow to not lock out straight at the end of your punch. Everything is relaxed before and during the punch, but just before the end of your punch, tighten the fist, keeping your wrist straight and tighten your wrist and without locking your elbow straight, tighten/tense at the elbow. There's always a slight bend in your elbow, even if it appears straight. Then at the end of the punch relax. Tension should be brief on impact or end of punch. In years later as you advance further in your level of skill (considering that you practice daily or weekly consistantly), you learn how to become soft and relax and still apply proper tension in your joints at the right moment. But remember not to lock out your elbows at the end of punch. There's a slight bend in your elbow and while keeping that slight bend, tense/tighten your elbow at the end of the punch and then relax after the punch. Hope that helps. Please don't hurt yourself.

[adelbrecht10]

Hey Walter,

Thanks for the response. I'm glad you remember who I am.

I was also wondering if during sparring at YMAA people find the vertical punch more risky. Although it is faster than the horizontal punch, it seems that if someone misses the vertical punch the elbow is in a position to be easily broken or chin na locked by the opponent.

[DOM]

in the style of karate I studied we only used a vertical fist.One of the main reasons was it is less likely someone can apply a lock or break your elbow then when you use a horozontal punch.You are also less likely to hyperexstend your elbow or hurt your wrist.As the vertical punch being less powerfull,I realy do not know about that.Structuraly it is stronger,both the radias and ulnar bones line up and are not twist like in a horizontal punch.The way we applied it,it was exstremly powerfull we twisted are hips and shoulder for power,every thing lined up in a straight line to the ground.From the fist to the shoulder to the hips to the leg to the ground.I gess it matters what you concider power.Speed is power,how fast a certain amount of mass travels is power.Just look at how a bullet travels and what makes one gun more powerfull then another,it is the speed in which that bullet travels.We used speed pullback and complet follow threw to the target.The machanics is the same as one would use in taichi.In fact the Master would always say it's just like using a whip.

[scramasax57]

i find the power from a vertical fist generally more springy and snappy, and the horizontal fist more torqueing and follow-through. so personally i find them more different kinds of power as opposed to different levels of power. typically i do vertical for jabs and horizontal for a cross; vertical is fast and sets up the horizontal for the finishing punch. i wouldn't say you should emphasize one over the other, because they are both suited to different situations.

[DOM]

there is definatly a differance in power,exspecialy the the way the muscles produce energy from the way there twisted and contracted.The vertical punch I throw is a finishing tecknique.It is differant yet simular to what you are us to.It starts off very much like a long fist punch,push from the ground,twisting the hips and fully exstending the punch but is also very much just like that of taichi minimal muscular power is used and the leg stays bent not straight on impact.Then it is also simular to white crane emphasizing a trianlgular body,and is a soft hard jing,the muscles only tighten for a split second on impact and then retracted as fast as it was thrown out.