Who Needs a Sifu?

Discuss shaolin longfist, white crane or other styles. Theory, practice and applications. Please stay on topic.

Moderators: nyang, Dvivid, Inga

Who Needs a Sifu?

Postby gmc » Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:52 am

This is a spin-off from what DOM said on the Iron Palm thread. About not having a sifu, etc. This is a subject I have battled with for a long time. Having had a real sifu who passed away, I know it is hard to find a relationship that represents what the word sifu represents. In the old days, the student lived with the sifu, or vice versa. My teacher's daughter told me how my teacher's tai chi teacher lived with them back in China.

My point: there comes a time, after one has trained with a real sifu, the sifu takes on a less vital role. A true student of martial art is supposed to learn, then practice, then discover and create on his own. How did the masters of old do this? They trained. They trained with other martial artists and friends, and they climbed the ladder of skill. There is a famous master from my style of xingyi (Shanxi Che Style). His name was Che Yizhai. In his bio (from jarek's sight) it says:

"Che worked as a guard of rich mansions in Taigu for over thirty years, everyday practicing free fighting with his disciple, Li Fuzhen. Most of those, who went to challenge Che, were defeated by Li Fuzhen."

How many people train like this today? Many of the xingyi masters of old learned only the Five Fists. The rest of their time they practiced fighting and became experts. Many went on to learn more deeply from their teachers/friends over time. This is the path I'm trying to follow now, practicing what I learned and training with other martial artisits. It satisfies me, I'm not worried about finding another sifu or not.

I'm open for any comments, questions or snide remarks...... :D
gmc
Forum Regular
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2005 8:14 pm

Postby scramasax57 » Sat Feb 25, 2006 1:09 pm

the point of having a true teacher is not that they will show you the techniques. my relationship with master yang for example goes beyond the bare techniques, beyond even martial arts, to where i consider him more of a guide or mentor for my life. he asks about my grades and lets me know very clearly when they don't please him. he is someone who i trust completely, and that is something that is rarely if ever found in today's society. he even expresses concern over my haircut. this is someone who is more than just a martial arts teacher. i don't have a problem with learning from someone outside the YMAA system, in fact i've done it a couple of times, but those others will really only ever be martial arts teachers, not a true sifu to me. even if i ever find myself at a place where i think it is time for me to completely self-train and research (which i think is highly unlikely given the depth and range of master yang's knowledge), master yang will remain my teacher because of the discipline and wisdom he has given me.
aka eric hinds, 2nd stripe
n. andover, ma branch
yang's martial arts association

changchuan, baihe, and xingyi
scramasax57
Forum DemiGod
 
Posts: 661
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 1:25 pm
Location: andover

Postby archi » Sat Feb 25, 2006 3:56 pm

scramasax57 - lucky you ;)
archi
Forum Regular
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2004 6:33 pm
Location: Poland, Wroclaw

Postby How Ming » Sat Feb 25, 2006 5:50 pm

One should show respect to thier Sifu. They worked hard for what they know. They didnt just learn it over night. They dont/didnt have to share what they know. One should consider themselves very lucky to have a sifu that cares for them and is willing to teach you. Its unfortunatly these days people think they can just "Buy" information like fast food without earning it.
How Ming
Forum Addict
 
Posts: 56
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 8:58 am

Postby How Ming » Sat Feb 25, 2006 5:53 pm

scramasax57 wrote:the point of having a true teacher is not that they will show you the techniques. my relationship with master yang for example goes beyond the bare techniques, beyond even martial arts, to where i consider him more of a guide or mentor for my life. he asks about my grades and lets me know very clearly when they don't please him. he is someone who i trust completely, and that is something that is rarely if ever found in today's society. he even expresses concern over my haircut. this is someone who is more than just a martial arts teacher. i don't have a problem with learning from someone outside the YMAA system, in fact i've done it a couple of times, but those others will really only ever be martial arts teachers, not a true sifu to me. even if i ever find myself at a place where i think it is time for me to completely self-train and research (which i think is highly unlikely given the depth and range of master yang's knowledge), master yang will remain my teacher because of the discipline and wisdom he has given me.


You are a good person of character. You are right, traditionaly when a student trains under a sifu he is treated like a family member. Your relationship to your sifu is like a son or daughter to a father. When a sifu has determine you are a good person then your sifu will teach you in depth.
How Ming
Forum Addict
 
Posts: 56
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 8:58 am

Postby DOM » Sat Feb 25, 2006 7:14 pm

you are right how ming when you say a sifu is like a father.This was my whole point.I do not have this kind of relationship with him.I only know him threw seminars and his study materials.I am not as lucky as scram.So how was I disrespectfull by stating this.I do not exspect to have a sifu type of relation ship with him by these meens,nore do I exspect this from him.How could I.I have the same Sifu type of relationship with my Sensai for the last 20 years so I know what it realy meens.I no longer train with him for I relocated,but he is and always will be my Sensai.What I was trying to say is I have many martial arts teachers but not a Sifu as you so correctly described!So what is your problem?
DOM
Forum ÜberGuru
 
Posts: 358
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:17 am
Location: NEW JERSEY

Postby How Ming » Sat Feb 25, 2006 7:22 pm

DOM wrote:you are right how ming when you say a sifu is like a father.This was my whole point.I do not have this kind of relationship with him.I only know him threw seminars and his study materials.I am not as lucky as scram.So how was I disrespectfull by stating this.I do not exspect to have a sifu type of relation ship with him by these meens,nore do I exspect this from him.How could I.I have the same Sifu type of relationship with my Sensai for the last 20 years so I know what it realy meens.I no longer train with him for I relocated,but he is and always will be my Sensai.What I was trying to say is I have many martial arts teachers but not a Sifu as you so correctly described!So what is your problem?


It doesnt matter if you consider him Sifu or Sensei or whatever. All teachers should be respected.

Remember they are not obligated to teach anyone anything.
How Ming
Forum Addict
 
Posts: 56
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 8:58 am

Postby DOM » Sat Feb 25, 2006 8:03 pm

Again what the hell are you talking about,I am exstremly greatfull and have all the respect in the world for Dr.Yang.
DOM
Forum ÜberGuru
 
Posts: 358
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:17 am
Location: NEW JERSEY

Postby How Ming » Sat Feb 25, 2006 8:16 pm

I dont want not escalate this. Lets start fresh.
Peace
How Ming
Forum Addict
 
Posts: 56
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 8:58 am

Postby scramasax57 » Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:40 pm

what he meant was that he had not achieved the real "sifu/student" relationship with master yang and would not pretend he had. i actually find this very respectful, i know master yang worries that people will come to his seminars or learn from his books and videos and then tell others that they represent him. i thank DOM for making it clear what his particular relationship is, ie a more distant one. it was a very honest answer.
aka eric hinds, 2nd stripe
n. andover, ma branch
yang's martial arts association

changchuan, baihe, and xingyi
scramasax57
Forum DemiGod
 
Posts: 661
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 1:25 pm
Location: andover

Postby DOM » Sun Feb 26, 2006 12:24 am

thanks scam I know and every one else who reads this knows I have bad grammer,but I was starting to think I made no sence at all by the way how ming interpeted my posts.Hey next time I am up there I would realy like to train with you and any one else up there from Andover and head courters.We should all try to get together at seminars and help each other push forward.Exspecialy those that train white crane. since there are no long fist seminars(wish there were}We need each other to get to the deeper levels of training.We are and should act like a family so lets have a reunion at the summer crane seminar.
DOM
Forum ÜberGuru
 
Posts: 358
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:17 am
Location: NEW JERSEY

Postby How Ming » Sun Feb 26, 2006 5:00 am

My original posted wasnt even about you.
It was about the topic of sifu's/masters in general.


(And no one is attacking you for bad grammers. I even have bad grammer.)
How Ming
Forum Addict
 
Posts: 56
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 8:58 am

Postby scramasax57 » Sun Feb 26, 2006 6:39 pm

i'm already saving up my money. first i need to have enough to fly to california this summer, then i'll start saving for the summer crane seminars. see you there.
aka eric hinds, 2nd stripe
n. andover, ma branch
yang's martial arts association

changchuan, baihe, and xingyi
scramasax57
Forum DemiGod
 
Posts: 661
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 1:25 pm
Location: andover

Postby DOM » Sun Feb 26, 2006 9:21 pm

if your training out there I wouldn't worry about any other seminar,just do what you have to to get there.
DOM
Forum ÜberGuru
 
Posts: 358
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:17 am
Location: NEW JERSEY

Postby scramasax57 » Sun Feb 26, 2006 9:25 pm

yes, california comes first in priority. but if i can i want to do both. as master yang once said: "what is money for? spending. you're going to spend it on something; why not spend it on kung fu?"
aka eric hinds, 2nd stripe
n. andover, ma branch
yang's martial arts association

changchuan, baihe, and xingyi
scramasax57
Forum DemiGod
 
Posts: 661
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 1:25 pm
Location: andover

Postby DOM » Sun Feb 26, 2006 10:04 pm

hey that would be great,talk it up with all the others you know that train crane and get them to go.It would realy be great to have the oppurtunity to train with as many crane practioners as possable.
DOM
Forum ÜberGuru
 
Posts: 358
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:17 am
Location: NEW JERSEY

Postby abersold » Sun Feb 26, 2006 11:09 pm

There are teachers, and then there are Sifu's who teach you the path..and with all paths sometimes you leave them, but your Sifu's spirit will be always be with you and it is something money cannot buy.

Traditional way especially if you are younger will reap benefits in your life that will come in handy in dealing in life. A sifu teaches you to Live your life fully present and with vigor. I learned this way and recommend it, not for everyone especially if you are thin skinned and can't take critism.

It is said a Sifu picks you, you don't pick the Sifu, the Sifu will teach the way if you have the fortitude to last. We all go to school and have teachers why would we abandoned having qulaity guidance in this...peace
abersold
Forum Addict
 
Posts: 72
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2003 9:23 pm
Location: Sterling Heights Mi. 48313


Return to Shaolin Gong Fu / Kung Fu

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests

cron