hard- soft jin

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hard- soft jin

Postby furtif » Tue Dec 20, 2005 10:32 pm

When i practice hard jin, its easy to see the manifestation by punch
or push in a bag. But when i practice hard-soft jin, how can i see my progress ?

I feel the wipe but not sure about the power.
keep practice
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Postby darth_freak » Wed Dec 21, 2005 6:30 am

you should ask your master, he must now.
otherwise you can ask a friend if he'd agree to get a strike on the shoulder and then ask him how he feels the pain. it's supposed to feel like your bone marrow ache.
on a punching bag it's supposed not to move but to go like that:

/___ (this is the strike line and the | is the bag)
\

*/___ the bag goes like that with hard jin
/

see what I mean?
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Master Yang.

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Postby furtif » Wed Dec 21, 2005 10:13 pm

Merci beaucoup!

Iwill continue to think about it.
And looking for a friend who want to be strike. :D
keep practice
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Postby DOM » Sat Dec 31, 2005 10:28 am

A heavy bag is still very good,but do not look at how much you can push the bag.Look and listen to the impact,it should sound more like a fire cracker and the bag will jump up and down more then forward.In karate we wear a karatedo-gi very loose fitting uniform.The sound it would make duing the execution of a tecknique was a great indicator of it's effectiveness.Candle training is a great way to train and determin how good your fajing is.Breaking a board resting on a table,suspended or thrown in the air is also a great indicator;but not for every one you must have conditioned fists.You have to have great speed to accomplish this just like extinguish a candle so it is a very good indicator.This was the only breaking we did but it was done very rarley only to test are tecknique.We also used very dense chest protectors to strike and develope are teckniques and your opponent would let you know how it felt.Their was a company in N.j who made a pad for this called an impact pad.I am not sure if their still around thou.Shukukai a branch of Shitoryu used these alot they were realy a great tool.In the absence of this equipment have a partner hold the heavy bag against their body wile you strike it.Not only can they tell you how it feels you will see how it effects their body.This kind of partner training will also help condition you to take a shot.
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Postby BaguaMonk » Tue Jan 03, 2006 5:43 pm

The way alot of shaolin schools do it is by great speed and acceleration to burn out candles. Just for info though, this is not the way Internal martial arts achieve great fa jing. This is more suited to external-internal hybrids or Shaolin schools (karate now too). Some fa jing in internal schools, it will barely even move the object, but you can hear the crackling and a distinct sound. This is more advandced form of fa jing as the force is not hitting the outside of the bag and making it move, but going inwards.
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Postby darth_freak » Tue Jan 03, 2006 6:16 pm

still there's candle training for taiji stripes.

This is more advandced form of fa jing as the force is not hitting the outside of the bag and making it move, but going inwards.


this seems good for vital points training, but when you train with a leather sand bag, it might be hard, might it not?
I was thinking about jin with phoenix eye fist for instance.
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Postby BaguaMonk » Mon Jan 16, 2006 3:17 am

Yeah definitely, in that case you would have to listen to the sound it makes. Its very distinct and different. Alot of Bagua people practiced with wood (wood "men", poles, etc.). But you can still achieve a nice physical blow with good IMA fa jing too, it just depends, every IMA has different types of jing. Xing Yi's can be both purely internal, and also external/internal. But for the real damage, you don't want it to "push" your opponent away, but instead drop them on the spot.
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Postby scramasax57 » Mon Jan 16, 2006 12:23 pm

that's a good point about pushing baguamonk. i've been training a little wing chun recently with a fellow student, and one of the habits he noticed is that i tend to push with a clearing/blocking/grabbing hand before i strike, which "warns" the opponent. i think its a habit that a lot of xingyi guys have. not saying that it is good xingyi to do so, just that maybe we tend to do it more.
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Postby BaguaMonk » Tue Jan 17, 2006 9:50 am

You mean push away the arm you are clearing/blocking or pushing forward (instead of strike)? Sorry I haven't taken much WC, but I plan to for a short time to develop certain hand skills.
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Postby scramasax57 » Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:24 pm

i mean just any technique that involves a block or trap with one hand and striking with the other. i have a tendency of giving just a little pressure with that trapping/blocking hand, which alerts the opponent a fraction of a second earlier. it can make a surprisingly big difference.
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Postby BaguaMonk » Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:16 am

I think I see what your talking about, you mean right before you strike you push/apply pressure and alerts the other person that you are going to strike?In other words there is probably a gap between the parry and strike, therefore alerting your opponent of an incoming counter.

Is this during Chi Sau? Just curious, working on that would probably be great. But in real situations most people won't know much or how to react, unless there is a big gap between the parry/trap and the strike/counter. But simultaenous, and smooth countering is always the most beneficial no matter situation I guess.
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Postby scramasax57 » Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:40 pm

yes, that is exactly what i meant. this is from doing general two-person drills. you are right, most people won't react fast enough to save themselves, but even untrained opponents will start moving their heads away and tense up to absorb the impact, so your chance of inflicting damage is slightly reduced, whereas if they have no idea a strike is coming they won't be ready to roll with it. its a pretty nitpicky detail, but an interesting one.
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Postby BaguaMonk » Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:50 pm

Yeah I would say its pretty important, if I were to grab someone's arm as they punch me and pull it towards and away from me (so I'm at their side), and I don't counter, they immediately tense up and ready themselves for a blow. Simultaenous is always the best.
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