WHITE CRANE COMBAT STRATEGIES

[kung fu fighter]

Hi,

Lets get back to discussing the origional topic of white crane combat strategies, concepts and theories.

[Hephaestus]

Sorry to carry the thread away there, KFF.
One more:

YMAA Canada, Toronto
Address - - - - -
Director Csaba Melnyak
Phone (416)567-8849
Fax - - - - -
Email [email protected]
Website - - - - -

Try e-mailing them sometime and see what they teach (and where they are located).

[scramasax57]

i for one have really said everything i am willing to say. i have no intention of simply laying out all of the knowledge i have for you for several reasons. number one, i sincerely doubt that it would have any real meaning to you, because you don't practice white crane. number two, it would be very disrespectful to my teachers. of course everyone has a choice, so another student might choose differently and explain in great detail the theories. i would discourage it though. please don't take this the wrong way; i admire your curiosity about our art. but this is not the way to respect and continue it. find a teacher, one fully qualified to pass on white crane in its full tradition, as we are not.

[yat_chum]

Hi KFF, while I was searching the net looking to see if I could find a White Crane practitioner in your area, I happened upon some posts you had made at another forum asking similar questions to the ones you have made here and I noticed that you have been bouncing questions between forums. I have also noticed that you do not like to answer questions. Could you please tell me what your motivation is? You are making me feel uneasy in my spirit and until I feel more comfortable I wont be answering your questions. Jo

[yat_chum]

Here is a kwoon in your area that teaches White Crane (the Flying Crane system)
http://www.warriorspirit.ca/kungfuhome.html

I suggest that you go there to find the answers to your questions and then perhaps you can come back here and give to the forum instead of just taking.

[kung fu fighter]

Hi KFF, I have also noticed that you do not like to answer questions. Could you please tell me what your motivation is? You are making me feel uneasy in my spirit and until I feel more comfortable I wont be answering your questions. Jo

I practice wing chun for the last 14 years and I have dabbled in
thaiboxing, Brazillian jujitsu, and tai chi.

Ask me any question you want, it's not that I don't like answering questions, people just haven't ask me too much.

I am asking questions aout White crane because I believe it share's a common root to wing chun, not because I am trying to steal anyone secrets.

About the link that you give me, the instructor's sifu never completed the system.

[yat_chum]

Quote for the day “Sao gerk seung siu, mo jit jiu” (Hands and feet defend accordingly, there are no secret unstoppable manoeuvres) Grandmaster Yip Man.

There are no secrets, just hard work. I think it’s sad that you think that someone has little to offer just because they haven’t completed “the system”. By your logic I am unworthy to speak to you as I’m just a hatchling as I know only the first form, plus some san sao of the White Crane system I do, but note that Dr Yang Jwing-Ming has not completed his system

“In fact, it is my understanding that, even after thirteen years of learning from my White Crane master, I have probably learned only half of what he knew.”

(The Essence of Shaolin White Crane... page 107).
My Wing Chun Kuen Sigung once said that he’d learnt as much about Wing Chun from his students as he had taught them. In my experience, much of martial art knowledge that I have, has not just handed out to me by a teacher but has to have been shelf taught, the Sifu is only a guide he or she is not the way, if one just does as one has been taught then ones knowledge is shallow and will fail. Please forgive me if I seem patronising I don’t intend to be, I’m just sharing thoughts, probably in my usual clumsy inarticulate way.


I will try this question again, which system(s) of Wing Chun kuen, do you do? I know that there is both the Yip Man and Yuen Kay-San systems taught your area. You are lucky, the Yuen Kay-San system to my knowledge has never made it to the UK. Do you teach? Jo

[kung fu fighter]

Hi Jo,
I learned yip man wing chun and completed the system back in 1995. But the wing chun that I teach is based on my research of all wing chun linages that I have experienced as well as from my fighting experiences.

[DOM]

kungfu fighter keep reaserching white crane it will give you great insite in to wing chun and other systems,if you have not done so get the essence of white crane book and vidioes.I f you realy interested come to boston and train with use at the seminars.You will not be diapointed.I myself trained some wingchun and other systems that were influinced by white crane it has given me great insite into the root of these other systems.I realy do not know if that many realy know the answers to your qestions about the stragies of white crane they seem to be very deep and complex.Their hidden in the forms and the two man FIGHTING sets.The forms are only revailed over a long time.The main training is in close range combate.a lot of two man training for reaction,timing,distancing and sensitivity.Realy great training for any style exspecial if you practice taichi,were stiking adhering,following and listing jing is of great importance oh ya wing chun too.This would be the equivalent to chisau,that gets progresivly more complex to include kicking qinna and take downs.at the intermidiat level blockin and striking simultaneously like most wing chun techniques.Again mostly a system that uses defence as an offence again like wing chun.It emphasize striking cavities and qinna,low kickes and takedowns.Its stiking techniqes are unlike wing chun,they are a soft hard fajing wip like action.White crane will take more training time to be able to use effectivley for combat,but some one with as much exsperiance as you,should catch on more quickly and take some cocepts and add to what you already do.Do your self a favor come and train at the seminars with use.You will get more than your moneys worth alot of info for a week end seminar.It is a great atmospher with serious practioners,most of these guys have been coming religiously for years.From all over the world.They are a realy good bunch of guys we have fun and train hard and are always looking to help each other improve.

[scramasax57]

DOM said it. its not that i'm worried that you're trying to steal "secrets", because they don't exist. its just the internet is a form of communication riddled with misunderstandings and also i dont think anyone who posts here (certainly not me) is qualified to instruct you in the deep strategies. that is why we are reluctant to discuss the deepest level of practice. i would also encourage you to come to winter seminars.

[yat_chum]

kung fu fighter asked

Are these Basic White Crane Hands similar to wing chun hand techniques such as Bong sao , tan sao, fuk sao etc? what the concept behind these white crane hands?

1. Fire hand
2. Water hand
3. Metal hand
4. Earth hand
5. Wood hand

Hear are a couple of articles and some clips that I've found.
http://home.austarnet.com.au/tsuruken/h ... hands.html
http://www.taomartialarts.com/crn/crn_wuxinghand.html
http://www.tgclong.com/Gihc02.wmv
http://myweb.hinet.net/home10/tgclong/Gihc03.wmv
http://myweb.hinet.net/home10/tgclong/Gihc04.wmv
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThXIR9eLSMo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzhBfHNTkr8
http://feeding-crane.myweb.hinet.net/c1.wmv

[SunTzu]

The only strategy one needs (in any art, be it cooking) is to avoid to "think inside of the box".

Keep studying the basics (kicking, punching, takedowns, and qinna).

My own teacher always asked if there were any questions after showing a move. "No, questions ? Alright, class dismissed. See you tomorrow !". And so that day there was no class at all, except for maybe 10 minutes.
This way he encouraged us to think for ourselves and investigate everything you have learned (and not learned), AND to learn from your mistakes, if you wanna learn you better look for questions AND answers.

[b]Look and thy will find.[/b]

[YangShi]

1. Going to Fourth door
2. Breaking bridge
3. Use 4 ounces to move 1000
4. Touch and go
5. Making noise in the east/striking in the west

1. The Go Principle - Like a game of go you must extend your force through your opponent or deflect their force their seek to enter into your system. To take a single stone in go you must surround them. The four things you must master to defeat a single opponent are:

(i) Mobility
(ii) Balance
(iii) Timing
(iv) Space


2. While you have a bridge (or contact) you are aware of your oponents intentions through sensitivity.

"Waves of intention are reflected in movement and form (stance, posture and attitude). By aligning the spatial line with the line of their force, you create tension between your awareness (spatial line) and their force. They supply the force to create the tension; you supply the string to create the tension. The intention is a wave down that string. Your spatial awareness is passive, subtle. Their force is active and expensive, emotionally and physically. They make the tension aware, as in the case of them trying to flank you. You will feel which direction they are moving like water flowing away from you, or a cloud passing over the sun."

By deliberately breaking a bridge, you are disengaging communication with your oponent to re-engage on your own terms. Whoever dicatates the communication controls the engagement.

3. This is what I know as the Upstream or Salmon Principle - When the salmon swims upstream they use 4 ounces to offset 1000 pounds. They use their movement, technique, pressure, and body. The salmon entices the water to move where it wishes. The pressure it applies is like a feeler or question.

4. I believe this to be similar to what I know as the Decompression Principle - By letting all the air out of a balloon you change the shape of the situation. Avoiding pressure in a rush surprises like a popped balloon. Create resistance and then release it, to control the engagement.

5. My previous Sifu would say "most martial artists will tell you the cliche phrase "hit through your target" but they fail to realise the benefits of hitting before your target" - think of a hunter throwing a rock to ilicit the reaction he wants from the ducks. he knows how they will react and where they will go and can easily defeat them.