New here - looking for a recommendation

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New here - looking for a recommendation

Postby tkc » Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:30 am

Hi All

I'm new here. I joined to ask a question but it looks like a nice community worth hanging around for!

Can someone help me distinguish between Dr Yang's Shuaijiao dvd, and his Taiji wrestling dvd, please?

I'll give an abridged background so you'll understand why I'm asking.

I started learning Cheng Man Ching tai chi in 1989. I already had 11 years Choy Lay Fut experience when I started and was a big contact fighter. I continued this for a few more years, until I was 25, but tai chi was what i wanted to practise more.

My teacher was great at form and my form is also ok. I've had a few tai chi teachers over the years ask me to teach them, so I must be doing something right. My teacher never shared much pushing hands with me - this is badly underdeveloped in my tai chi - and he knew very little to no application.

For years I'd tried to reverse engineer the form to better understand what the application possibilities could be. I think my background helped somewhat. 18 months ago I bought Dr Yang's Martial Applications dvd and it was like someone helped me open a door that I'd been pushing against for awhile. Best money I've spent in ages.

I'd like to look more at the wrestling/throwing side of what I do. I only practise alone, (I work out occasionally with local karate teachers and a wing chun Sifu - sparring, not teaching). I'd like to better understand the throwing possibilities in the postures of the form.

I don't practise tuishou, which is why I'm baulking at the Taiji Wrestling dvd, but I'm wondering if the regular shuaijiao dvd might be too general for a tai chi base? Is the Taiji Wrestling dvd 'that' specific for pushing hands? Is the shuaijiao dvd 'that' general that you couldn't adapt it to tai chi techniques?

Can anyone out there help me distinguish between the two?

many thanks in advance

tkc
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Re: New here - looking for a recommendation

Postby John the Monkey mind » Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:46 pm

If you want to understand throwing from postures the Taiji DVD sounds like a good bet. Both are good disks. Why not also look at the Wudang Taijiquan DVD. Lots of really cool applications on the Wudang disk.
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Re: New here - looking for a recommendation

Postby Dvivid » Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:46 pm

Hi,

Welcome. You're in the right place. Don't get the Shuai Jiao DVD. It is a basic overview of takedowns. You can translate them to tai chi, and there is some cross over with some of the techniques.

But, if you're a tai chi guy interested in the applications, then you DO want the Taiji Wrestling DVD, if only for connecting the dots, between your form, applications, and practical takedowns. Everything starts from a tai chi posture or pushing hands. Its really fun watching Dr. Yang effortlessly drop those poor guys to the floor.

I recommend learning Push Hands first though.

The concept is that all Chinese martial arts have punching, kicking, shuai, and na in their curriculum, but this is virtually lost in Taijiquan nowadays.

Taiji Wrestling Course 1 focuses on applying Shuai Jiao techniques found in Crossed Pushing Hands, in which opponents face each other with right hand to right hand, or left hand to left hand. Course 2 focuses on applying Shuai Jiao techniques found in Parallel Pushing Hands, in which opponents face each other with opposite hands: right hand to left hand, and left hand to right hand.

Here's the content of that DVD, so you can see it is specifically for Taijiquan:
COURSE 1 CONTENTS 1. Grasp the Sparrow’s Tail – Right (Lan Que Wei – You) Thigh Bump (Tui Kao) 2. Grasp the Sparrow’s Tail – Left (Lan Que Wei – Zuo) 3. Press-Bump (Ji Kao) 4. Small Rollback (Xiao Lu Shou) 5. Large Rollback (Da Lu Shou) Large Rollback – 1 (Da Lu Shou Yi) Large Rollback – 2 (Da Lu Shou Er) 6. The Crane Spreads Its Wings (Bai He Liang Chi) Diagonal Flying (Xie Fei Shi) 7. Single Whip 1 (Dan Bian Yi) 8. Single Whip 2 (Dan Bian Er) 9. Brush Knee and Step Forward (Lou Xi Yao) 10. Play the Guitar (Shou Hui Pi Pa) Lift Hands to the Up Posture (Yi Shou Shang Shi) 11. Step Back and Repulse the Monkey (Dao Nian Hou) 12. Pick Up Needle from Sea Bottom (Hai Di Lao Zhen) 13. Strike the Tiger Posture (Da Hu Shi) 14. The Snake Creeps Down (She Shen Xia Shi) 15. Cross Hands (Shi Zi Shou) The Crane Spreads Its Wings (Bai He Liang Chi) 16. The Fair Lady Weaves with Shuttle (Yu Nu Chuan Suo) 17. Draw the Bow and Shoot the Tiger (Wan Gong She Hu) 18. Seal Tightly (Ru Feng Si Bi)

COURSE 2 CONTENTS 1. Grasp the Sparrow’s Tail (Lan Que Wei) 2. Single Whip (Dan Bian) 3. Press or Squeeze (Ji) 4. The Crane Spreads Its Wings (Bai He Liang Chi) 5. Play the Guitar (Shou Hui Pi Pa) Lift Hands to the Up Posture (Ti Shou Shang Shi) 6. Fan Back (Shan Tong Bei) 7. Embrace the Tiger and Return to the Mountain (Bao Hu Gui Shan) 8. Diagonal Flying (Xie Fei Shi) 9. Step Back and Repulse the Monkey (Dao Nian Hou) 10. Wave Hand in the Clouds (Yun Shou) 11. The Wild Horse Parts Its Mane (Ye Ma Fen Zong) 12. The Fair Lady Weaves with Shuttle (Yu Nu Chuan Suo) Draw the Bow and Shoot the Tiger (Wan Gong She Hu) 13. Cross Hands (Shi Zi Shou) Punch Under the Elbow (Zhou Di Kan Chui) 14. Step Forward to the Seven Stars (Shang Bu Qi Xing) 15. Step Back and Ride the Tiger (Tui Bu Kua Hu) 16. Step Forward to Sweep the Lotus (Shang Bu Bai Lian)

Hope this helps,
David
"Avoid Prejudice, Be Objective in Your Judgement, Be Scientific, Be Logical and Make Sense, Do Not Ignore Prior Experience." - Dr. Yang

http://www.ymaa.com/publishing
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Re: New here - looking for a recommendation

Postby tkc » Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:13 am

Thank you for the fast response guys. Much appreciated.

Dvivid - it's only me in a little European village. There's really no-one here to do any push hands with. I HAVE done a little, but was never actively 'taught' it, as such. One day I'll get myself out of here and seek proper tuition.

I'm just looking for a little more depth to what I'm doing at the moment.

Thanks again.
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Re: New here - looking for a recommendation

Postby Dvivid » Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:07 pm

If you can't convince a friend to push hands, you might enjoy the solo "Sticking Hands" practice instead, in that case.

http://ymaa.com/publishing/tai_chi_DVD/ ... eeling_DVD

have fun!
"Avoid Prejudice, Be Objective in Your Judgement, Be Scientific, Be Logical and Make Sense, Do Not Ignore Prior Experience." - Dr. Yang

http://www.ymaa.com/publishing
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Re: New here - looking for a recommendation

Postby tkc » Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:34 pm

I've just had a look at the dvd preview - some elements look a lot like some bagua jibengong. More interesting stuff that I'll add to the list. I need to control my enthusiasm a little - where I live I get hit with import duty for everything that I buy that comes into the country. The less something is worth, the less I get hit. It's cheaper for me to buy piece by piece and pay for postage each time than it would be to receive a big parcel.

That's ok though - the Martial Applications dvd has kept me very busy for quite some time!
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Re: New here - looking for a recommendation

Postby John the Monkey mind » Fri Feb 14, 2014 5:37 am

tkc wrote:- it's only me in a little European village.
Where in Europe? There are lot of good camps hosted by YMAA in Europe and could recommend an instructor (and his camps) who is very big on Shuai Jiao and Taiji applications :)
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Re: New here - looking for a recommendation

Postby tkc » Fri Feb 14, 2014 11:08 am

John - south west germany, edge of the Black Forest near the Swiss border.

If you can recommend anyone, I'd be thrilled. We have a local tai chi teacher who wants nothing at all to do with me. I'd love to have someone to train with if it's doable.
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Re: New here - looking for a recommendation

Postby John the Monkey mind » Fri Feb 14, 2014 6:35 pm

tkc wrote:John - south west germany, edge of the Black Forest near the Swiss border.

If you can recommend anyone, I'd be thrilled. We have a local tai chi teacher who wants nothing at all to do with me. I'd love to have someone to train with if it's doable.


The closest instructors I know to you are in Poland. Kraków is a European center YMAA http://www.ymaa.pl/ . Personally I have trained in Gdansk Poland. The Gdansk director has summer camps that are very cheep by German or British standards so it would be worth the drive, they are about a week long and full of applications and wrestling. He is also really big into Chin Na as well. Poland is a big center for YMAA activity and has many camps and seminars every year. Some guys even come over from the UK for training. Sadly I don't know of anyone in Germany.
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Re: New here - looking for a recommendation

Postby tkc » Sun Feb 16, 2014 6:59 am

Thank you for the heads up. I will certainly keep an eye open for opportunities to train in Poland. I'm often running summer training camps for my own students (I teach taiko drumming) but if I get the chance I will do my best to get there.
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