YMAA Iron Palm?

Discuss shaolin longfist, white crane or other styles. Theory, practice and applications. Please stay on topic.

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Postby DOM » Sun Feb 26, 2006 9:56 pm

yes how ming I said is iron palm intirerly safe?is any martial art!how is this a claim.If a martial art is intierly safe it has no martial essence left in it and is no longer a martial art.Practice of martial teckniques all have an element of danger and have there share of injuries no matter how safe and carefull one is in training them.You doubt if any one would talk to master yang or liang shou this way.First of all I did not say anythink to you that warrented this attack.I gess you are just very sensitive you should grow a thicker skin if you are going to post on internet forums.second are you saying that you should be shown the same respect as them.If you deserve this honor then who are you and what family style do you belong to.You say a tradition instuctor would kick you out for asking such qestions.You sound like you are claiming to be a traditianal intructor.Well maybe you are I do not know this is what I was trying to find out.If you are so what I am not your student why would this offend you.But I realy doubt you are because you are here on a martial arts forum a tradition instuctor would not.This brings me to my last and final qestion,why are you here or on any martial arts forum if you do not like being asked qestions about your self training and your exspertise?
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debates

Postby dc » Mon Feb 27, 2006 1:16 pm

fun as internet debating is, especially in this wonderful thread that has taught everyone so much about iron palm, i think the forum could do with a little more personal messaging and a little less of the pda - public displays of aggression.

this is kinda like the "real fighting" thread in the sparring section. monkey, maybe lock this one down, too?
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Postby How Ming » Mon Feb 27, 2006 2:05 pm

DOM wrote:yes how ming I said is iron palm intirerly safe?is any martial art!how is this a claim.If a martial art is intierly safe it has no martial essence left in it and is no longer a martial art.Practice of martial teckniques all have an element of danger and have there share of injuries no matter how safe and carefull one is in training them.You doubt if any one would talk to master yang or liang shou this way.First of all I did not say anythink to you that warrented this attack.I gess you are just very sensitive you should grow a thicker skin if you are going to post on internet forums.second are you saying that you should be shown the same respect as them.If you deserve this honor then who are you and what family style do you belong to.You say a tradition instuctor would kick you out for asking such qestions.You sound like you are claiming to be a traditianal intructor.Well maybe you are I do not know this is what I was trying to find out.If you are so what I am not your student why would this offend you.But I realy doubt you are because you are here on a martial arts forum a tradition instuctor would not.This brings me to my last and final qestion,why are you here or on any martial arts forum if you do not like being asked qestions about your self training and your exspertise?

Please quote exactly what you exactly said next time.

It was also not an attack on you. It was a response to what Gmc said.

Unfortuantly maybe your instructors never explain to you any proper protocals and ethics.
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Postby yat_chum » Mon Feb 27, 2006 2:28 pm

How Ming,


Let it Be

When I find myself in times of trouble
Mother Mary comes to me
Speaking words of wisdom, let it be.
And in my hour of darkness
She is standing right in front of me
Speaking words of wisdom, let it be.
Let it be, let it be.
Whisper words of wisdom, let it be.

And when the broken hearted people
Living in the world agree,
There will be an answer, let it be.
For though they may be parted there is
Still a chance that they will see
There will be an answer, let it be.
Let it be, let it be. Yeah
There will be an answer, let it be.

And when the night is cloudy,
There is still a light that shines on me,
Shine on until tomorrow, let it be.
I wake up to the sound of music
Mother Mary comes to me
Speaking words of wisdom, let it be.
Let it be, let it be.
There will be an answer, let it be.
Let it be, let it be,
Whisper words of wisdom, let it be

The Beatles (Lennon/McCartney)
yijing zhidong

use stillness to overcome movement
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Postby DOM » Mon Feb 27, 2006 2:41 pm

give me a break,shut it down.This is an internet forum were peaple discuse there views,pro's and cons.There will be some bickering so what.No one here has threatened any one or used fowel words.This website is in america and should adhere to the fist amedment.We are loosing enough of are rights in this county.Both my grandfathers fought in world war two so I and the rest who live in this country can say what we want.If you do not like what you hear do not read it.I think there has been a lot of good info shared on this thread dispite a few disagreaments..Do you think Dr.Yang has not had heated debates about his knowlage and every thing he has been teaching writing and putting on video.What if they would have shut him down and stoped him from speeking and writing.This forum and most of us would not be studing and training in the material we are now.I could see the need to do so if it was realy ugley,using fowel words and threats.How ming was stating some interesting views and seems to have great knowlage.I was try to find more about here and the training she has done.I was honestly looking for more info on internal teckniqes for Iron palm and was trying to get here to discuse it and see if the info was creditable.I am a seeker of martial knowlage and wanted to hear more.Even thou she attacked my morality and accused me of not being worthy of this info or a having a Sifu,I do not feel she said anything to warrent shutting this thread down.I feel it's just a good debate.I had to set some things straight,she made it sound like I was disrespecting Dr.Yang and I am an inmoral martial artest that dose not deserve to be tought.I had to defend my self.
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Postby DOM » Mon Feb 27, 2006 3:09 pm

how ming you say it was not an attack ok.Then what do you call it when you accuse me and my intructor of not having any ethics or protocol.How ming what would the prodocal be from a tradition style and stylest when some one would state somthing like this about them and there sifu or Sensai.You do not know me,if you are such a traditionalis set on proper edicate then if you met and trained with me you would not say things like this.how ming I would have dropped this long ago but I can not I trained in very tradition japanies style that had a very high standerd of morals and proper edict.You are continualy qestioning my honor and falsly stating I have none.As a traditionalist you must know I can not leave it be.I live and breath the martial creed I come to with empty hands I have no weapons but forced to defende my self my principles or my honer should it be a matter of life or death or right or wrong than here are my weapons my empty hands.In this case a key board!
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Postby How Ming » Mon Feb 27, 2006 3:59 pm

How Ming wrote:It was also not an attack on you. It was a response to what Gmc said.



"....IT WAS A RESPONSE TO WHAT GMC SAID." Please re-read the post previous post. Your jumping to conclusions. Its just a misunderstanding. No need to bring up past issues. I repeat again it was not an attack on you.
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Postby gmc » Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:11 pm

Yeah How Ming How Come you are referring to me? While you accuse others of improper ettiquette, we are training. There is a saying: "give respect, and you will get respect".
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Postby How Ming » Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:14 pm

gmc wrote:Yeah How Ming How Come you are referring to me? While you accuse others of improper ettiquette, we are training. There is a saying: "give respect, and you will get respect".


It was a response to your comments to ME. Please re-read what you wrote.

(Sun Feb 26, 2006 5:47 pm)
Last edited by How Ming on Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby gmc » Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:31 pm

No thanks, I've read it enough. Honestly I'd rather spend my time training than trying to figure out who said what to who.
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Postby How Ming » Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:42 pm

gmc wrote: ... I'd rather spend my time training ....


This is a good advice for everyone.
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Postby Walter Wong » Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:55 am

Please refrain from any name calling. I do like the discussion of Iron Palm and issues related to Iron Palm are being discussed and debated. It's ok to disagree but let's not let our personal feelings get involved. Regardless of anyone's age, we must all speak like adults on this board. Please do not post anything here or on the internet to someone that you would not say to them in person.

I know DOM personally and he is a good guy and has the upmost respect for Master Yang.

I'm considering locking this thread, but I will keep it open for Iron Palm discussion only. If I see anymore name calling or simply any debating or discussion that is getting personal, I will proceed to lock the thread.

Ok, now play nice.

*gets off soapbox*
This is a thought world part of a thought universe. Man is the center of thought. "I think. Therefore I am."
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Postby Walter Wong » Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:11 pm

Also I like to include that if you are a student or instructor of YMAA and consider yourself to be a student of Master Yang, how you represent yourself here on this board and anywhere on the internet is a representation of what kind of people train in YMAA whether it's at a YMAA branch or you take the YMAA seminars. Be careful of what you say as this is a public board and people from all over the world can read what is written here. If there is negativity expressed here in any manner, it reflects back to Master Yang and the YMAA organization itself. As unfair as it is, some people out there may just base YMAA on what is written here. Any name calling or childish quarrelling going on here, can contribute to pushing away people who could potentially be good YMAA martial artists.
This is a thought world part of a thought universe. Man is the center of thought. "I think. Therefore I am."
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Postby Flip » Fri Mar 10, 2006 2:20 pm

Walter,

That's an excellent point, thank you.

Something else to remember is that what you write and how you behave is a direct reflection of you, and anybody that's ever trained you (in martial arts or otherwise.) Just because we may not meet you in person doesn't mean that your behaviour here doesn't reflect badly on you outside of this discussion forum.

I began this thread hoping to gain some insight into Iron Palm with this, now I've just wasted ten minutes reading some back and forth between people about nothing. And there was nothing about Iron Plam on the last two pages of this thread.

I would respectfully urge anybody involved in this discussion to 'let the water go under the bridge' or, use the Private Message function.
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Nerve Damage and Iron Palm Training

Postby Savate » Fri Mar 24, 2006 10:59 pm

The internal Iron Palm training is suppose to be safe. I can tell you that an old karate instructor of mine had nerve and bone damage caused by hitting the Makiwara until he did not have any knuckles on his right hand. Sure he could hit people holding 25 lb barbell plates and knock them backwards, but he had to learn to write with his left hand, as his right hand was nothing more than a piston for striking.
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Postby Anthony Dougherty » Fri Jan 05, 2007 12:10 am

lol I am new here but in my research i have found that like all things in amrtial arts there are MANY forms of iron palm... Wing Lam teaches a SAFE shaolin form useing bags for the conditioning of the hands and Qigong for the chi flow... other styles burn crush and utterly destroy the hand to stop feeling to the hand. PErsonally i want to learn iron body and iron palm but Dr.Yang will not teach I have already asked.
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Postby Douglas Scott DuLac » Tue Jan 23, 2007 5:52 am

Hi evryone,
This is my first post and I would like to put in my two cents worth regarding iron palm.

A lot of the points are well stated regarding the affects of iron palm. I'm not an expert but I did train for a year in internal iron palm and worked out with the makiwara when I was training in Sung Lung Miu Kung Fu. There are numerous styles, as have been mentioned here, 'internal and external.' I trained in internal and have reaped many rewrds. External ,I believe,is used for combat only, internal is used for healing applications but not a prerequisit. Internal, at least the style I trained in, is sticking your hands in sand and squeezing the sand between your fingers. This brings qi to the hands and is said to open the meridions and dan tiens. It does, of course, give a sense of confidence, but I believe that if you do train you should meditate as well. This subsides the ego. Some teachers scoff on the iron sand training, but I look forward to it.

I have reservations about the external style. But I think,from my humble experience that the internal is safe for the meridions in the hands. My instructor trained to higher levels and his hands were flawless. I never knew why until I found out he trained iron palm. He also healed people, as well, using qi-gung.

Of course the training should not be taught to punks and thoughtless people who don't show empathy toward others or to beginners who don't have control.

I think it is a way to understand your body on a deep level, as stated before on this thread much like iron shirt training.

I'm interested in the connection between iron palm and nei-gung/ bone marrow-brain washing qi-gung.Ithink that iron training is stepping up your energetic body system like a transformer. It does need to be done with care. But just listening to your body/mind can tell you if your going inthe wrong direction. Honesty and the ability to say 'Im not ready' if something goes wrong is important. Also keeping the mind relaxed is important. Trying to force the training or the way you're training is a mistake.
The greatest manifestations of martial arts is the compassion, peace and health that merges from the training.
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Postby Un Long be » Sun Dec 14, 2008 4:53 pm

Dear friends and colleges I have being studying martial arts for some time now and I have use bags for training and trees but not all the time I have develop some power with chi kung training and meditation but most of all I have found that all dose training are just mind training in other word is my understanding that what you really do with all this training of iron palm or iron fist or all this is conditioning your chi and mind to be able to do execute the techniques . so you don’t need spend your life traning this stuff to brake anything with your hands or feet’s to be able to break or kill . ones your mind and heart knows what is all about if you hit with your mind heart and energy there is not body that could take that strike at this time even if you have not being doing training of iron palm for 10 years but you understand in your mind what is all about and you can be fearless and give yourself in the moment of your attack that is coming from your hole being even if your hand brake the hit will kill the other person o go true the wall that is how i fell about all those methods of training they are just to condition your mind to believe in yourself and do thing that no others practice or can do, but even others without training or conditioning could have the same effect if when they strike they put their heart and energy in to that hit no matter what the overcome or what happen to their hands even if your hand is hanging form your skin but you still punch with the broken bone you will kill the other or go through the wall
Take care
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Postby Dvivid » Tue Dec 16, 2008 12:24 pm

Image
"Avoid Prejudice, Be Objective in Your Judgement, Be Scientific, Be Logical and Make Sense, Do Not Ignore Prior Experience." - Dr. Yang

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Thanks Doctor

Postby Un Long be » Tue Dec 16, 2008 2:25 pm

Thanks for your answer but you see I’m no saying that Iwill break my hand I just want to make a point about training and my understanding and I think I did it the wrong way, can you tell me if I’m wrong just, want to know if my perception about energy and mind is right and or my inside feeling is correct or incorrect can you tell me if my energy label makes me feel that way or perhaps my lack of knowledge or perhaps the lack of a sincere master that will tell you the true about the hole dial . I know that conditioning is important but I think that what I have grasped is not at all wrong with all my respect to you and your schools.
Unfortunately for me I have never had a real master and also when I went to china looking for one the one that tray to help me was afraid of retaliation from other masters he gave me all that he could and I will be eternally thank full to him .But there are masters do not care about the student sincerity or devotion and all they care is money is very sad for us non Chinese who love this art or way of living I have always feel like a orphan but thanks to my ability of understanding I do not feel frustrated and. Like we say in my country
I think I know how the water get in to the coconut but know that I know is hard for me to get to my best label of kung fu
My best to you and your school
Humberto M Infante
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