Physical force?

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Physical force?

Postby yat_chum » Thu Jul 09, 2009 5:19 am

When is it acceptable to use physical force?
yijing zhidong

use stillness to overcome movement
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Re: Physical force?

Postby pete5770 » Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:55 pm

yat_chum wrote:When is it acceptable to use physical force?


When it works? It would seem to be rather foolish to overlook something simply because Tai Chi calls for no physical force. Which by the way I'm not sure that it does. If you have "power" why not use it if the situation warrants? If you're being threatened it would seem that the best course of action is to use whatever works. In the practice of Tai Chi and sparring, yes, softness is king, so to speak. However Physics tells us that you will not move anything without power and Tai Chi must obey these rules. So you are always going to have to exert a bit of power, however small, to push someone out of your way. Hence the "4 ounces to move a thousand pounds" saying.
I've always thought of it as, your opponent simply cannot brace himself against a push or shove from every direction, all the time, and this means that your job, as a Tai Chi player, is to put your hands on him and find out just exactly where you can move him with just a touch or how you can lead him to fall over himself. Very basic explanation and the HOW? of it is the usual "practice, practice, practice". :wink: :wink:
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Re: Physical force?

Postby wpgtaiji » Sun Feb 05, 2012 12:45 am

pete, this is GENERAL forum! Not taiji forum so before handing out the same misunderstandings you dish there, ASK first. Physical force is too broad a category in a General forum to give out such silliness.

When is it acceptable to use physical force? I think you best talk to a legal rep (cop or lawyer) in your area mate.
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Re: Physical force?

Postby pete5770 » Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:59 am

wpgtaiji wrote:pete, this is GENERAL forum! Not taiji forum so before handing out the same misunderstandings you dish there, ASK first. Physical force is too broad a category in a General forum to give out such silliness.

When is it acceptable to use physical force? I think you best talk to a legal rep (cop or lawyer) in your area mate.


As I recall the OP asked "WHEN is it ........." . He didn't ask IF it was ok. :wink: :wink:
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Re: Physical force?

Postby Phalanxpursos » Sun Feb 05, 2012 9:55 am

yat_chum wrote:When is it acceptable to use physical force?


First of all be non-violent, from that perspective are you allowed to defend yourself and others.
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Re: Physical force?

Postby wpgtaiji » Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:55 am

Phalanxpursos wrote:
yat_chum wrote:When is it acceptable to use physical force?


First of all be non-violent, from that perspective are you allowed to defend yourself and others.


Blanket statements on LAW are not good advice, sorry mate. If you are being "non-violent", but are standing between a door and your "aggressor" for example, you could be seen as NOT being non-violent!

SEEK proper legal guidance for your country if you are unsure.
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Re: Physical force?

Postby pete5770 » Sun Feb 05, 2012 11:06 am

Phalanxpursos wrote:
yat_chum wrote:When is it acceptable to use physical force?


First of all be non-violent, from that perspective are you allowed to defend yourself and others.


In a way I took the OP as meaning "when is it....." in the sense of the practice of Tai Chi and sparring. Since it takes "power" to move anything you're going to have to use a bit or a lot, depending on your skill level, to push someone around, so power is always used, so to speak.
I'm sure there are a few people out there whos skill levels and technique are at a level that it would seem that they use no power in push hands and sparring, yet are able to deflect, redirect, and push away people with the slightest of touches. Once again practice, practice, practice and you too may be able to approach or even surpass this standard. Still, physics tells us that some power / force, however small, is required and Tai Chi must adhere to this, and it does, despite what some would call "no force".
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Re: Physical force?

Postby wpgtaiji » Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:55 pm

pete5770 wrote:
Phalanxpursos wrote:
yat_chum wrote:When is it acceptable to use physical force?


First of all be non-violent, from that perspective are you allowed to defend yourself and others.


In a way I took the OP as meaning "when is it....." in the sense of the practice of Tai Chi and sparring. Since it takes "power" to move anything you're going to have to use a bit or a lot, depending on your skill level, to push someone around, so power is always used, so to speak.

That would be fine, if this took place in the TAI CHI FORUM! This is the General forum!
ASSUMING means You make an bottom of you.... If it turns out that the OP meant what you answered, well, you too belong together. Until then, NO ASSUMING works wonders! (especially in sparring and push hands)...
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Re: Physical force?

Postby pete5770 » Sun Feb 05, 2012 9:25 pm

yat_chum wrote:When is it acceptable to use physical force?




That would be fine, if this took place in the TAI CHI FORUM! This is the General forum!
ASSUMING means You make an bottom of you.... If it turns out that the OP meant what you answered, well, you too belong together. Until then, NO ASSUMING works wonders! (especially in sparring and push hands)...[/quote][/quote]

No idea what you just tried to tell me. Except for the old "assuming makes an *ss.......". Not even sure how that fits in to all this. :wink:
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Re: Physical force?

Postby Josh Young » Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:20 pm

yat_chum wrote:When is it acceptable to use physical force?

When is it acceptable to use rudeness?
in my estimation:
it is acceptable to use (physical) force when it is not rude to do so
but there is so much to consider
what of harming others?
what of insulting others (in a physical sense)?
what of embarrassing others?

be nice, be polite
protect self and others
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Re: Physical force?

Postby Phalanxpursos » Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:18 am

Josh Young wrote:be nice, be polite
protect self and others


Or one could consult a book of stratagems
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Re: Physical force?

Postby Josh Young » Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:22 am

Wu De is a perfect strategy...?
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