RANDOM thought for the day.

Use this topic to discuss themes not related to martial arts. Everyone needs to chat sometimes, discuss some personal ideas, maybe talk about movies or music, please use this topic for that, so we can keep all other themes on the Martial Arts topic.

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Postby Tarandus » Sat Sep 15, 2007 10:37 pm

I'm not saying that mine is the only way or that my beliefs are the only ones. How can you tell that animals do not have moral qualities such as benevolence? You have never been an animal, so how can you tell? Unless you count humans as animals too, in which case where does the qualitative distinction begin and end? People can eat what they want as far as I am concerned: it's none of my business. If they want a diet that involves killing and which will ultimately kill themselves too, that is absolutely no concern of mine whatsoever. Maybe it should be, but it isn't. But fish is a type of meat and I really don't think people have the right to call themselves vegetarians if they eat it. I am a vegan and I don't eat meat, but I don't call myself carniverous, as that would be misleading. Kind regards, T.
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Postby Inga » Sun Sep 16, 2007 8:27 am

Well I guess we are talking semantics then. You object to people saying they are vegetarian when they eat fish. Okay. But if you do not care what they eat, why do you care how they classify their diet? People have a "right" to call themselves whatever they wish. It is your right to disagree with them. When something is harvested, whether it is a pig that is slaughtered or a carrot that is picked, it ceases to grow at that point..both were living and both were killed in order to be eaten. I think you are saying that you object to causing pain and/or suffering to acquire food. But you add that eating meat is a diet "which will ultimately kill themselves too", as if meat is in someway unhealthy. Again, tis your right to believe that, I won't quarrel with the fact you find it abhorrent, but, I think it's another fact that humans are omnivores, that is how our bodies work, and eating meat itself does not kill you.
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Postby Tarandus » Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:13 am

Inga: if you tried to live on meat alone, I don't fancy your chances of a very long and healthy life. Study after study has now proved that a vegetarian diet halves the risk of cancer and heart disease, and a vegan one even more so. We are omnivorous, yes, but that is largely in my view a matter of fact and choice than anything to do with adaptations in our teeth or digestive system. I've even seen pigeons and sparrows eating scraps of meat in the street when their preferred diet of grains is absent. A number of years ago, a class of medical students in the US were given a lecture on the human digestive system, but the professor deliberately chose to illustrate the lecture with slides of a gorilla's digestive system. None of them noticed the difference, which is hardly surprising as in fact there is hardly any, and as I'm sure you know, gorillas survive largely on a diet of fruit and leaves. Our digestive tract, being very long, is highly unsuited to the ingestion of meat which contains many carcinogens. Animals that are adapted to eating meat, such as the cat family, have by contrast very short digestive tracts in order to expel the meat from their system in the shortest possible time, therefore. I think particularly your last sentence of your last message contains bald assertions whereas in fact I think you will find that further research into these issues will disclose that there is considerable scientific debate and the issues have by no means been resolved. What is beyond peradventure, though, is that studies have proved that a vegetarian, and even more so, a vegan diet, WILL halve your chances of getting cancer and/or suffering heart disease. Use that information how you will. As I've already indicated, it is no business of mine what people choose to eat. On the other hand, a meat-based diet is extremely wasteful of resources. It takes about ten times as much land and water to produce a unit of animal protein as opposed to the same unit of vegetable protein. There are simply not the resources available on this planet to feed the entire global population on a Western-style diet. Even in Britain, which has a great deal of rainfall, there are frequent water shortages. This is because 60% of all water used in this country is consumed by farmed livestock. You are right in noticing that my original point was a semantic one. People can eat fish if that's what they want to do as far as I am concerned; but once such persons start to describe themselves as 'vegetarians' (and this is becoming increasingly common), in my view they are misrepresenting themselves. Kind regards, T.
'Have patience with everything unresolved in your heart and try to love the questions. Live the questions now. You will gradually, without even noticing it, live your way into the answer.' Rainer Maria Rilke.
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Postby angryboy » Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:44 am

in our time it is hard to find real man and women, that act in correspondence to their sexual signs, i mean each people was born with difinite purpose as man or women? earlier in stone age it was clearer with this difference, but it seems not now...? 8) it seems not all peoples become really mens or womens, not all have get enough experience? so to have child for women doesn't mean be real mother (can be seen in energetic field?), with the father also?
looking for something, that i don't know ald looking for my errors in past. thanks for corrections!
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Postby Inga » Sun Sep 16, 2007 12:23 pm

hmm well, i have heard of other dietary expressions, for example, vegans who eat milk & eggs..it that Ovalactarians? Perhaps we need a way of describing people with a primarily vegetarian diet who also eat fish. The problem (I know from personal experience) with saying that you are a carnivore when you only eat fish means that you will regularly be served meat, other than fish. And yes, one can say "I am a carnivore but I only eat fish" but in my mind that is the same as saying "I am a veggie but I will eat fish"..both hold exceptions. I do love to play with words. So Tarandus, you need to come up with a title for fish eating veggies..then we need to find a way to diffuse it.
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Postby Tarandus » Sun Sep 16, 2007 2:45 pm

Inga: no vegans drink milk or eat eggs. People who do so describe themselves as 'lacto-ovo vegetarians', which of course includes eating cheese. I am probably a fruitarian in that I don't eat leaves or whole plants or roots or anything that would destroy the plant: just nuts, seeds, pulses (sometimes), fruits and fruit-type vegetables such as cucumbers, peppers, olives, etc. Vegans don't eat anything from animals or wear their fur or wool or leather. I suppose my stage is one beyond that. Definitions of 'fruitarian' vary so much that it would be misleading to describe myself as one in absolute terms. I think omnivorous adequately covers the case of someone who eats fish as well as plants. A fish is a sentient being and a vertebrate and I see no reason to draw a distinction between someone who eats those alone on top of plants and someone who eats other types of meat. 'Omnivorous' adequately covers the case and further predication by the individual describing themselves as such can always be supplied on enquiry. Kind regards, T.
'Have patience with everything unresolved in your heart and try to love the questions. Live the questions now. You will gradually, without even noticing it, live your way into the answer.' Rainer Maria Rilke.
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Postby Dvivid » Tue Sep 18, 2007 10:57 am

Pescatarian, for whoever's keeping count. I started eating fish a few times a year in 2001. Prior to that I was veggie since 85. But I won't be using the word pescatarian ever in my lifetime, except now, to answer this question.

I was vegan for a few years, but I really like cheese, and now you can get cheese without animal rennet easily.

Tofurkey rules!

http://vegetarian.about.com/od/glossary/g/Pescatarian.htm
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Postby Dvivid » Wed Sep 19, 2007 7:54 am

To return to the proper spirit of this thread: FNORD.
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Postby Inga » Wed Sep 19, 2007 12:18 pm

Dude I just googled FNORD and got like 3 very different meanings..so it multiplies the randomness..score!
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Postby joeblast » Thu Sep 20, 2007 5:49 am

Somehow I dont think he meant Foundation for Neo-cognitive and Ontological Research and Development :lol:

damn conspiracies!
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vegetarians

Postby yat_chum » Thu Sep 20, 2007 9:06 am

Is it alright to eat plants? They are living things too.
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Postby Dvivid » Thu Sep 20, 2007 9:41 am

They are living. Are they also conscious, sentient beings? Does an organism require a nervous system to be "conscious"?

Connecting the electrogalvanic skin-response section of his lie-detector to his secretary's Dracaena massangeana (a palm-like indoor plant) in the hope of determining how long it took for water poured on the roots to reach its leaves, Cleve Backster was intrigued by the very human characteristics of the tracing on the graph paper. Observing this, he speculated upon what might happen if he threatened the physical well-being of the plant. Dunking a leaf into hot coffee generated no reaction. He then conceived a worse threat: he would burn a leaf with a match. At that moment of intent, he saw the recording pen leap into wild excitation -- apparently responding solely to his thought. Further investigation proved that neither Backster nor the plant were oddities: the same experiment has been replicated by other men with other plants on other recorders, thus making the results far more important to the scientific community as a phenomenon in need of explanation.


http://www.theosophy-nw.org/theosnw/science/sc-wtst2.htm

Cleve Backster used a polygraph to test plants, attaching electrodes to the leaves. By recording electrical impulses he found the plants to be extremely sensitive to his thoughts, particularly thoughts that threatened their well-being. Backster also observed a reaction in a plant when even the smallest cells were killed near it. He noted that they have a kind of memory, reacting to someone who earlier had done harm to another plant nearby: in a line-up of anonymous people the plant could pick out the one who had performed the act.

Image


http://www.borderlands.com/newstuff/research/plantsas.htm
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Postby yat_chum » Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:02 am

I love fruit salad.

Atomic Wedgie - Karate Chop - Kung Fruity
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Postby angryboy » Sun Oct 28, 2007 10:36 am

:o why i'm here? and what is my destiny?
looking for something, that i don't know ald looking for my errors in past. thanks for corrections!
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Postby Dvivid » Thu Dec 20, 2007 3:47 pm

OK, so what's the speed of dark?

I intend to live forever - so far, so good.

Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.

Steven Wright
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Postby Yatish Parmar » Fri Dec 21, 2007 7:08 am

"This is beautiful! What is it, velvet?"
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Postby Inga » Fri Dec 21, 2007 8:19 am

"Oh wait- I forgot my jellybeans" - Rizzo the Rat
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Postby yat_chum » Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:35 pm

Where is everybody?
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Postby Yatish Parmar » Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:32 am

Right here brother
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Postby Dvivid » Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:57 pm

I was in Mexico. Now I am back. It is less warm and sunny here than there.
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